Has it really been just ten years?

[Bibliomaniac]

Moderators: Feel free to move this to the Orioles History Forum if you think it belongs there.

I constantly see the adage that "it's been ten years since the O's were a comptetive team". I wouild like to differ.

I say it's been much longer than ten years. Yes, I know that we went to the postseason in 1996 and 1997, but we did so trying to be the MFY's and buying up a bunch of free agent talent. Those two years are aberrations. The truth is, except for those two years, we've stunk since the mid-80's.

Those who constantly repeat the "ten years" line are, I feel, implying that the team's problems belong solely to Peter Angelos. Now, I am not a big Angelos booster, but it's not all his fault. What Peter tried to do was put a Band-Aid on a sucking chest wound. But (to carry a disgusting analogy further) he didn't create the sucking chest wound, that was done by Edward Bennett Williams and especially Eli Jacobs.

So, people, just relax and sit back. It's taken us a long while to fall this far, and, while it won't take as long to get back up, it might take a little while. We're on the right path, I beleieve, so just have a little patience and enjoy the next few yeras...

[RShack]

Exactly right. Things started going to hell in '79 when EBW bought the team and starting ignoring the farm system. It took a few years for the damage to show, simply because guys like Cal were in the pipeline already and the guys on the team were good. But the destruction of the Oriole Way started big-time in '79. That's almost 30 years ago.

The mid-90's were just a temporary distraction due to PA spending out the wazoo to be like Steinbrenner. It was impossible to sustain that, and it didn't fix anything.

[calunitas1]

This is actually something I realized a long time ago. The O's have been terrible since I was a little kid (I am 28 now). And to be honest 96 and 97 never felt right because most of the guys on the team weren't (to paraphrase a MFY sentiment) "Real Orioles"

[orayole]

Well I just started watching baseball in '96 so I got spoiled.

[TonySoprano]

But the destruction of the Oriole Way started big-time in '79. That's almost 30 years ago.

Was the 1983 world series also an abberation? Angelos has been on the job since late 1993, well more than enough time for a competent owner to rebuild a farm system and fix what ails the team.

[bgtimber75]

Is this the old "Angelos isn't that bad if you consider how bad the person was before him" argument? Yes the team has been horrible for 10 years. As TonySoprano said he's had the team since 1993. 14 full years and 2 playoff years is a horrible record no matter how you want to lay it out there.

[Aurelius]

Well I just started watching baseball in '96 so I got spoiled.

1969 for me. Spoiled? You have no idea. That team was the best Oriole team ever and now I go thru life realizing it will probably never be topped. And was too young to appreciate what I was seeing.

[RShack]

Was the 1983 world series also an abberation?

It was no aberration, it was the last gasp of a dying system. It takes time for a drying-up farm system to be visible at the ML level. Cal was already in the system when EBW killed the Oriole Way. Cal was the very last guy. The problem only showed up at the ML level when there was nobody coming through the pipeline after Cal. You stop filling-up your car with gas, it doesn't stop running right away. It only stops after you use up the gas that was already in the tank. Same thing.

[mikezpen]

It's true that EBW was the beginning of the end for the Oriole organization. I think Jacobs was worse than Angelos, but he wasn't around long enough for his cheap ways to really damage the team.The late 80's/early 90's featured some great #1 picks like Mussina, McDonald and Olson, but the system didn't really produce them. I think their college programs developed them more than the Orioles did.

[33rdst]

A guy the Orioles don't get credit for developing, who went on to have a very solid and long career is Steve Finley. He's a guy the Orioles would love to have kept instead of Anderson but the Astros refused to take Brady.

That trade after the '89 season really sent this organization into a tail spin. The 89 team was comprised primarily of young guys from our farm system or guys we acquired in trades. We almost caught the Blue Jays in what would have been a miracle year. Roland Heyman, a nice man, but I'll never forgive him, traded away our future grasping for the ring. That deal also began the demise of Frank Robinson.

[hoosiers]

Was the 1983 world series also an abberation? Angelos has been on the job since late 1993, well more than enough time for a competent owner to rebuild a farm system and fix what ails the team.

I'm not really sure how one disputes this post.

PA is the one constant and he's had enough time to get this together. It's PA's fault for running off Gillick and Wren, despite minor disputes, that would have left us with far superior teams over the past 10 years. PA's choices regarding Thrift, B&F and B&D were clearly poor ones in retrospect.

IMO, the thing that is doubly disappointing is that even with mediocre/bad GMS, if we had a quality scouting director in place before Jordan during most of this time, we'd have been considerably more competitive.

[geschinger]

I'm not really sure how one disputes this post.

PA is the one constant and he's had enough time to get this together. It's PA's fault for running off Gillick and Wren, despite minor disputes, that would have left us with far superior teams over the past 10 years. PA's choices regarding Thrift, B&F and B&D were clearly poor ones in retrospect.

IMO, the thing that is doubly disappointing is that even with mediocre/bad GMS, if we had a quality scouting director in place before Jordan during most of this time, we'd have been considerably more competitive.

The original post and the post you reply to both have some merit. Angelos has had plenty of time to "fix" things. But at the same time he didn't destroy a thriving franchise either. He took over a severely broken franchise and it continued to be a severely broken franchise and only in the last couple of years have issues like a poor minor league system been addressed.

[NattyBo]

A guy the Orioles don't get credit for developing, who went on to have a very solid and long career is Steve Finley. He's a guy the Orioles would love to have kept instead of Anderson but the Astros refused to take Brady.

That trade after the '89 season really sent this organization into a tail spin. The 89 team was comprised primarily of young guys from our farm system or guys we acquired in trades. We almost caught the Blue Jays in what would have been a miracle year. Roland Heyman, a nice man, but I'll never forgive him, traded away our future grasping for the ring. That deal also began the demise of Frank Robinson.

100% agree with this statement. Had we held on to Finley, Harnisch, and Schilling the O's would have been competitive for several years after. I became a die-hard fan during that season. It's been years of disappointment ever since.

[RShack]

It's true that EBW was the beginning of the end for the Oriole organization. I think Jacobs was worse than Angelos, but he wasn't around long enough for his cheap ways to really damage the team.

Jacobs was broke. We don't know how he would have been had he not been broke. But, yes, he was broke and he sure didn't help revive the Oriole Way that EBW killed. Neither did PA. We've had 3 bad owners in a row. PA is the only one who spent to try to fix things. Didn't do it the right way, hasn't been a good owner, but he's the only one who spent money to try. His 2 post-season appearances in 14 years equals how many happened in the previous 14. Just because PA has been bad, that doesn't mean the previous guys didn't wreck it before he got here. They did. PA didn't ruin the system, it was already ruined. He just didn't fix it.

The one big thing we do owe Jacobs for is the cool, special nature of OPACY. He's the guy who pushed hard for the features and charm of old-timey in-the-city ball yards.

The late 80's/early 90's featured some great #1 picks like Mussina, McDonald and Olson, but the system didn't really produce them. I think their college programs developed them more than the Orioles did.

I agree. We got a couple hits from the draft but, AFAIK, there is nothing about those guys that the farm system deserves credit for.

[TonySoprano]

PA is the only one who spent to try to fix things. Didn't do it the right way, hasn't been a good owner, but he's the only one who spent money to try.

Do you mean how after fourteen years on the job, how money is only now being invested in the D.R.? How after fourteen years, only now is he expanding his "Asian outreach?"

Just because PA has been bad, that doesn't mean the previous guys didn't wreck it before he got here. They did. PA didn't ruin the system, it was already ruined. He just didn't fix it.

He "just didn't fix it" (aw shucks) despite the fact he has been owner nearly twice as long (fourteen years to eight) as EBW. Incredibly, in your tale, EBW remains the primary villain.