Why we dont draw well in Baltimore

[Roy Firestone]

Hate to break it to you.
But except for the first few years at OPCY, the Orioles have always struggled at the gate. Even in the great years, 66', 69', 70',71, and later 83', the birds (not a knock of the fans) havent exactly packed the joint. There used to be an old joke in the 60's..the Orioles needed a bat day to sellout a World Series.
The truth is,Cal was a draw in his final years..but even then, attendence was starting to slip. Winning is one thing, but compelling winners are another.
Guess what? Mark Hendrickson isnt gonna pack a family of four into a Volvo on a Thursday night to see him last 2 and a third innings.
Neither will 32 year old Ryan Freel who hit a total of 0 Home Runs last year.
Unless people in this economy are willing to fork over 250 bucks for a family of four to park; watch the game; and stuff their faces with nachos and dogs and beer for the likes of Cesar Itzuris(which I highly doubt), attendence is gonna drop again.
I was at game two of the season last year.
Thats game two.
As in, the second game of the season. They announced the crowd at 7,000. I would more likely say they really had 3,000 people in the park.
This team needs a facelift. Rebuilding is one thing. Giving you something for your entertainment dollar is another. People arent gonna come out for a loser. But they will really stay home for a dull loser.Sign Adam Dunn. Take some chances. Bring Weiters up now. Lets get something exciting going. Lets take back the ballpark for an exciting product. And never, ever, let the Yankee and Red Sox fans outdraw Oriole fans!

[Orioles Examiner]

You're right, Izturis, Freel, and Hendrickson aren't bringing fans to the Yard.

But Bonds would.

I'm just sayin'...

[TakebackOPACY]

Hate to break it to you.
But except for the first few years at OPCY, the Orioles have always struggled at the gate. Even in the great years, 66', 69', 70',71, and later 83', the birds (not a knock of the fans) havent exactly packed the joint. There used to be an old joke in the 60's..the Orioles needed a bat day to sellout a World Series.
The truth is,Cal was a draw in his final years..but even then, attendence was starting to slip. Winning is one thing, but compelling winners are another.
Guess what? Mark Hendrickson isnt gonna pack a family of four into a Volvo on a Thursday night to see him last 2 and a third innings.
Neither will 32 year old Ryan Freel who hit a total of 0 Home Runs last year.
Unless people in this economy are willing to fork over 250 bucks for a family of four to park; watch the game; and stuff their faces with nachos and dogs and beer for the likes of Cesar Itzuris(which I highly doubt), attendence is gonna drop again.
I was at game two of the season last year.
Thats game two.
As in, the second game of the season. They announced the crowd at 7,000. I would more likely say they really had 3,000 people in the park.
This team needs a facelift. Rebuilding is one thing. Giving you something for your entertainment dollar is another. People arent gonna come out for a loser. But they will really stay home for a dull loser.Sign Adam Dunn. Take some chances. Bring Weiters up now. Lets get something exciting going. Lets take back the ballpark for an exciting product. And never, ever, let the Yankee and Red Sox fans outdraw Oriole fans!

In 1966, the O's were 3rd of 10 AL teams in attendance behind 2nd place Minnesota and 6th place Califonia. Anaheim Stadium opened in 1966.

1983 was the first year Oriole home attendance was over 2 million. When the 1995 season started, the team hadn't been to the playoffs in 11 years, since 1983. Home attendance was over 3 million that year despite having ten fewer home games due to the strike. 2008 was the first year since 1983 that home attendance was under 2 million.

[Roy Firestone]

Hate to break it to you.
But except for the first few years at OPCY, the Orioles have always struggled at the gate. Even in the great years, 66', 69', 70',71, and later 83', the birds (not a knock of the fans) havent exactly packed the joint. There used to be an old joke in the 60's..the Orioles needed a bat day to sellout a World Series.
The truth is,Cal was a draw in his final years..but even then, attendence was starting to slip. Winning is one thing, but compelling winners are another.
Guess what? Mark Hendrickson isnt gonna pack a family of four into a Volvo on a Thursday night to see him last 2 and a third innings.
Neither will 32 year old Ryan Freel who hit a total of 0 Home Runs last year.
Unless people in this economy are willing to fork over 250 bucks for a family of four to park; watch the game; and stuff their faces with nachos and dogs and beer for the likes of Cesar Itzuris(which I highly doubt), attendence is gonna drop again.
I was at game two of the season last year.
Thats game two.
As in, the second game of the season. They announced the crowd at 7,000. I would more likely say they really had 3,000 people in the park.
This team needs a facelift. Rebuilding is one thing. Giving you something for your entertainment dollar is another. People arent gonna come out for a loser. But they will really stay home for a dull loser.Sign Adam Dunn. Take some chances. Bring Weiters up now. Lets get something exciting going. Lets take back the ballpark for an exciting product. And never, ever, let the Yankee and Red Sox fans outdraw Oriole fans!

Roy, by your logic, a team with Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Boog Powell, Paul Blair, and four 20 game winners didnt draw well.
A team that won two world series in four years...didnt draw well.
So its not merely winning.
And God knows, those were pretty colorful teams..so its not just compelling, exciting, winning teams and players that draw either is it?
No.
Its more than that. Its dull, losing teams, and alot of apathy mixed in with the fact that people cant shell out their limited funds for something they dont really want to see.
Fact is...I am worried about sports and the entertainment dollar. It costs too much to go to games. The players make too much money and theres too much "free" baseball on TV for it to matter.
Id go every night if I could or if I lived there. But Im in the minority. I bet alot of you would too. But you are also in the minority.
If baseball isnt careful,(and it isnt) the fans will start staying away in droves in this economy. And yet, this has been a long time coming.
How depressing is that?

[Roy Firestone]

In 1966, the O's were 3rd of 10 AL teams in attendance behind 2nd place Minnesota and 6th place Califonia. Anaheim Stadium opened in 1966.

1983 was the first year Oriole home attendance was over 2 million. When the 1995 season started, the team hadn't been to the playoffs in 11 years, since 1983. Home attendance was over 3 million that year despite having ten fewer home games due to the strike. 2008 was the first year since 1983 that home attendance was under 2 million.

Ill say it again. 2 million fans is nothing to get excited about. And even though they were the best team on the planet in 1966, they still didnt lead in attendance. In 83' they won the title and they went over(only) two million in attendance. The new ballpark explains the surge in attendance in 95. It was and is a glorious place to watch baseball. But if a team doesnt draw 2 million now, it is in serious trouble. You have to be worried about the home gate after last year...Somebody come up with some ideas quick...We are turning into the Kansas City Royals!!!

[charliec107]

I know that Orioles tickets are among the best prices in the league, but I think we are at the point where there are many people who wouldn't go to Baltimore to watch this game for free. I drove from the DC suburbs last summer a good amount, but the next day you are wiped from working, driving an hour, watching three hours of baseball, and driving an hour back (And you still have to wake up at 6 am to go to work). Especially if there are more games in HD, I can swing by Taco Bell on the way home and the game + food is less than $10, compared to tickets, gas, parking and concessions. I still love the O's, but I think a lot of people are going to rethink how much of a financial commitment to a franchise that really hasn't invested in the fans want (i.e. competitive team).

And maybe Wieters will add some excitement, but the only people who really care are the die hards. I can't speak for Baltimore, but only my friends who follow the O's with me really have heard of him.

Truthfully, I'll be fine with hosting O's viewing parties at my house like I did last summer for games I didn't drive too. It is less money and less time consuming. I will try and still catch as many student nights as possible along with the occasional T-shirt Tuesday. And I still will follow the O's and won't consider myself any less of a fan just because my attendance at the Yard will be down.

[charliec107]

I would also like to add, that if Brian Roberts is traded, I think it will have a significant impact on attendance. The casual Orioles fans (that are still left anyway) know him and consider him the face of the franchise. I think if a casual fan sees him traded for minor leaguers they will be disappointed. It will be seen as yet another dumb front office move instead of a necessary part of rebuilding toward a winner. Aside from this board and some other places, people don't know the top prospects in baseball. This isn't football or basketball, the top young players aren't shown on ESPN like they are with NCAA coverage.

[cmcgarvey]

Baltimore loves football.
Easy answer.
Why would anyone who is from Baltimore care about a team that always loses and makes the worst decisions ever imaginable?
Mark Teixeira would have brought people in.
There's no doubt about it.
That would've been an extra 250-500 fans in the beginning of the season tops.
AJ Burnett would've been an extra 5-10 fans in the beginning of the season tops.
My point is that no one believes in Baltimore as a whole.
They shouldn't.
I've been reading up on NYC, I've been offered a job there, and they fix the their problems as opposed to let them dwell.
Until Baltimore addresses it's problems, most free agents are gonna view this town as The Wire depicts it.

[Migrant Redbird]

Ill say it again. 2 million fans is nothing to get excited about.

It may not be now, but it was back in 1983. Even playing in "Baseball Heaven", that was only the 2nd year in which the Cardinals had ever surpassed the 2 million fans mark, and they were coming off the World Championship in 1982.

Dodgers           3,510,313 
Angels            2,555,016 
Brewers           2,397,131 
Expos             2,320,651 
Cardinals         2,317,914 
Yankees           2,257,976 
White Sox         2,132,821 
Phillies          2,128,339 
Braves            2,119,935 
Orioles           2,042,071 
Royals            1,963,875 
Blue Jays         1,930,415 
Tigers            1,829,636 
Red Sox           1,782,285 
Padres            1,539,815 
Cubs              1,479,717 
Rangers           1,363,469 
Astros            1,351,962 
Athletics         1,294,941 
Giants            1,251,530 
Pirates           1,225,916 
Reds              1,190,419 
Mets              1,112,774 
Twins               858,939 
Mariners            813,537 
Indians             768,941

As always, the Los Angeles teams and the Yankees were near the top in total attendance. The Brewers and Cards were coming off the 1982 World Series. The Braves made a strong run to repeat their 1982 division title. The White Sox won their division championship in 1983 and the Phillies were the Orioles opponents in the 1983 Series. About the only team whose position above the O's is difficult to explain is the Montreal Expos. However, the Expos had moved into a new stadium in 1977 and they won the NL East title in the strike shortened 1981 season, in the middle of a 5 season stretch culminating in 1983 where the Expos competed strongly and finished no lower than 3rd.

However, I can't quibble with the point that the Orioles are in serious trouble attendance wise right now. A weak team competing in a strong division that's perceived by fans as being seriously mismanaged is going to have attendance issues.

[Cokeman]

Take some chances. Bring Weiters up now. Lets get something exciting going. Lets take back the ballpark for an exciting product. And never, ever, let the Yankee and Red Sox fans outdraw Oriole fans!

Dress warmly if you go to the park to see him...oh yeah, and you may be a little lonely.

[Rex Thunder]

Hate to break it to you.
But except for the first few years at OPCY, the Orioles have always struggled at the gate. Even in the great years, 66', 69', 70',71, and later 83', the birds (not a knock of the fans) havent exactly packed the joint. There used to be an old joke in the 60's..the Orioles needed a bat day to sellout a World Series.
The truth is,Cal was a draw in his final years..but even then, attendence was starting to slip. Winning is one thing, but compelling winners are another.
Guess what? Mark Hendrickson isnt gonna pack a family of four into a Volvo on a Thursday night to see him last 2 and a third innings.
Neither will 32 year old Ryan Freel who hit a total of 0 Home Runs last year.
Unless people in this economy are willing to fork over 250 bucks for a family of four to park; watch the game; and stuff their faces with nachos and dogs and beer for the likes of Cesar Itzuris(which I highly doubt), attendence is gonna drop again.
I was at game two of the season last year.
Thats game two.
As in, the second game of the season. They announced the crowd at 7,000. I would more likely say they really had 3,000 people in the park.
This team needs a facelift. Rebuilding is one thing. Giving you something for your entertainment dollar is another. People arent gonna come out for a loser. But they will really stay home for a dull loser.Sign Adam Dunn. Take some chances. Bring Weiters up now. Lets get something exciting going. Lets take back the ballpark for an exciting product. And never, ever, let the Yankee and Red Sox fans outdraw Oriole fans!

Is this really true? It's all subjective to the time and what was a solid attendance at the time I guess- BUT, growing up during the eighties- I went to at least 4 or 5 games a year at Memorial Stadium, and then at the Yard- and I really don't ever remember seeing empty seats.

I'd love to see stats on this, because I'd be amazed. When I moved to LA in 1999, I used to brag about how Camden Yards was always packed every time I'd go to an Angels game. At the time- Angels attendance was abysmal! They started winning and boom- huge fan base returns. Point is though- I could swear the Orioles were among league leaders in attendance for quite some time... at least top 25%.

As far as being dull- we're only dull because we haven't been winning. Names like Adam Jones, Matt Wieters, and of course Markakis and Roberts will all elicit a bit more excitement when a good "team" record follows their individual stats. Granted, Nick is a man of few words- but put him on a powerhouse team that's winning and he becomes "Nick, the Man of Mystery." Or who knows... seems like pessimism is permeating even the most die hard fans these days. MOre depressing by the day....

One last thought- I do think Uehara will draw some interest... maybe not much- but something is better than nothing at this point.

[Rex Thunder]

It may not be now, but it was back in 1983. Even playing in "Baseball Heaven", that was only the 2nd year in which the Cardinals had ever surpassed the 2 million fans mark, and they were coming off the World Championship in 1982.

Dodgers           3,510,313 
Angels            2,555,016 
Brewers           2,397,131 
Expos             2,320,651 
Cardinals         2,317,914 
Yankees           2,257,976 
White Sox         2,132,821 
Phillies          2,128,339 
Braves            2,119,935 
Orioles           2,042,071 
Royals            1,963,875 
Blue Jays         1,930,415 
Tigers            1,829,636 
Red Sox           1,782,285 
Padres            1,539,815 
Cubs              1,479,717 
Rangers           1,363,469 
Astros            1,351,962 
Athletics         1,294,941 
Giants            1,251,530 
Pirates           1,225,916 
Reds              1,190,419 
Mets              1,112,774 
Twins               858,939 
Mariners            813,537 
Indians             768,941

As always, the Los Angeles teams and the Yankees were near the top in total attendance. The Brewers and Cards were coming off the 1982 World Series. The Braves made a strong run to repeat their 1982 division title. The White Sox won their division championship in 1983 and the Phillies were the Orioles opponents in the 1983 Series. About the only team whose position above the O's is difficult to explain is the Montreal Expos. However, the Expos had moved into a new stadium in 1977 and they won the NL East title in the strike shortened 1981 season, in the middle of a 5 season stretch culminating in 1983 where the Expos competed strongly and finished no lower than 3rd.

However, I can't quibble with the point that the Orioles are in serious trouble attendance wise right now. A weak team competing in a strong division that's perceived by fans as being seriously mismanaged is going to have attendance issues.

Glad you posted that- cuz it just goes to show- winning does count for something. As I said before- my first 3 years in LA, every Angels game I ever went to had pathetic attendance. I'd travel to Anaheim every time the Orioles were in town and I'd get a great seat- and have plenty of space around me. I'd be able to enjoy the game in peace basically.

Once they won the World Series, the ballpark was packed- and suddenly I'd get heckled to death for wearing my O's gear. The turnaround was insane. Those damn rally monkeys didn't help. I'm not sure how long they've been around- but I certainly never noticed them before their World Series run.

Now, if we could just start winning to test this theory!!

[statman]

The Ravens came to town in 1996 (right around the same time that the Orioles started to fall off (1997)). I'm not saying that the Ravens coming has been a bad thing because it has obviously been amazing for Baltimore, but I'm 21 years old...for more than half of my life, the Orioles haven't had a winning season.

On the other hand, I've seen the Ravens win a Superbowl and make numerous playoff appearances. A new generation has been bred in Baltimore that doesn't even know what true Baltimore baseball is. Yeah, they might go to OPACY on a random student ticket night with nothing else to do but spend 5 bucks and get drunk with some college kids. But, they don't know the rivalry that used to be O's vs. Yanks. They don't know true Oriole Magic. That's a concept that has died over the past 11 years.

Everyone on this board is a big enough fan and probably went to games at Memorial Stadium in their early childhoods that changed their lives and hooked them to the sport and the team. Anyone born in the past 11 years can't have had the same experience we did. Something has to be done to change this franchise around so that the next generation doesn't see baseball die out completely in Baltimore.

[Domenic]

I know that Orioles tickets are among the best prices in the league, but I think we are at the point where there are many people who wouldn't go to Baltimore to watch this game for free. I drove from the DC suburbs last summer a good amount, but the next day you are wiped from working, driving an hour, watching three hours of baseball, and driving an hour back (And you still have to wake up at 6 am to go to work). Especially if there are more games in HD, I can swing by Taco Bell on the way home and the game + food is less than $10, compared to tickets, gas, parking and concessions. I still love the O's, but I think a lot of people are going to rethink how much of a financial commitment to a franchise that really hasn't invested in the fans want (i.e. competitive team).

And maybe Wieters will add some excitement, but the only people who really care are the die hards. I can't speak for Baltimore, but only my friends who follow the O's with me really have heard of him.

Truthfully, I'll be fine with hosting O's viewing parties at my house like I did last summer for games I didn't drive too. It is less money and less time consuming. I will try and still catch as many student nights as possible along with the occasional T-shirt Tuesday. And I still will follow the O's and won't consider myself any less of a fan just because my attendance at the Yard will be down.

I live in Northern VA also, and the majority of the games I go to are weekend games. I'm usually up at the Yard when the O's are home over a weekend. Personally I prefer Sunday afternoon games, but Saturdays work also. I think the only game I went to during the week at Camden Yards last season was during the week I was on vacation and I drove up with a buddy of mine to see them play. I think I went to ten games last year, plus the three I saw them play in DC.

[jcroemer]

You're right, Izturis, Freel, and Hendrickson aren't bringing fans to the Yard.

But Bonds would.

I'm just sayin'...

When the Giants were in town a few years ago I spent a whopping $9.00 on a cheap seat to see Bonds hit #676 in the first inning. I was ready to go when Bonds hit it but ended up sneaking down behind the plate to Row CCC and telling the umps "good game" as they headed back down the tunnel.

One time was enough to see Chemical Man bash one. I hope they don't sign him and he stays unemployed. I have a little bit of a problem with him and the way he used steroids to change the game.