I'm slow to judge, but Trembley officially lost me tonight

[Old#5fan]

But the approach at the plate is still poor in general. No patience.

Like they were saying last nite (Palmer I think) it is very hard to be patient when you have been mired in a slump since the season started, knowing that a walk isn't going to raise your 220 BA. He said it is much easier for a hot hitting guy like Wigginton to be patient than Adam Jones for example. I agree with that.

[SilentJames]

The approach he seems to preach is awful.

We need a hitting coach that preaches patience, working the count, etc...We play so many teams that consistently have much better approaches at the plate.

Now, AM also has to stop going for these hack away guys as well.

But we have had some fairly solid offenses over the years. It's never really been the problem. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but you can't deny that this streak is the poorest we've seen in a long time, when you think of the talent we have at the plate, or at least should have at the plate.

[Frobby]

How come you can say this and your post isn't called a pile of crap? I said the same thing a week ago (although I didn't word it exactly the same) and one of the omnipotent posters here called the sentiment drivel and stupid. I wonder.....

I hadn't read your post that you referred to, but I went back and looked for it. You basically said that the O's 30-3 loss in August 2007 showed that Trembley accepted losing too easily. That's what the other poster was responding to. And while I would never call another poster's opinion "crap," I don't agree that the 30-3 game showed anything about whether Trembley accepts losing or not. Having been at that game in person, I can tell you that any manager would have been helpless in that situation. And that was the first game of a doubleheader, and the O's fought their butts off in Game 2 (though eventually they lost).

[Tranquil1]

I hadn't read your post that you referred to, but I went back and looked for it. You basically said that the O's 30-3 loss in August 2007 showed that Trembley accepted losing too easily. That's what the other poster was responding to. And while I would never call another poster's opinion "crap," I don't agree that the 30-3 game showed anything about whether Trembley accepts losing or not. Having been at that game in person, I can tell you that any manager would have been helpless in that situation. And that was the first game of a doubleheader, and the O's fought their butts off in Game 2 (though eventually they lost).

Thanks for your reply.
The 30-3 game was the the first part. The way the team has played at the end of the last two years was the second part. I know I'm in the minority here with this opinion, but I don't ever want to see a manager of my team allow the team to take a beating like that. Many people will say hey it's only one game, but a loss like that hangs on an organization a long while. I'll bet opposing players (particularly first baseman) rubbed our noses in it for a while afterward. Now one might wonder what Trembley could have done about it. I would have brought my best pitcher in the game once the score had gotten to 25 and told him to do whatever it took to stop it right there and then. That would have been Bedard. Second game be damned. We weren't in a pennant race, so the second game really meant nothing. Just my two cents.

Edit: Personally, I would never want to be associated with a loss like that. I'm too damn competitive. I have always thought that anyone willing to absorb a beating like that without fighting back was a loser.

[Gofannon]

The worst part for me is that if you showed someone last night's game and asked them what month the game was played based on team focus, hustle and fundamentals, the answer would be September.

The team has really been like that almost from day one this year. They got hit in the mouth with some close losses, but they've looked listless since like the fifth day of the season.

If your team looks like it's playing out the string in September and it's April, it's time for the manager to go.

[wickedwitch]

They got hit in the mouth with some close losses, but they've looked listless since like the fifth day of the season.

The second blown save plus losing Roberts has really hurt us.

[waroriole]

I'm not exactly hoping for a change, but it could be for the best. This team has shown no signs of life and they aren't doing the little things to help us break out of it. I don't know whose fault it is, but a new voice could be for the best.

One question, if we get someone from outside the organization how does that work. Especially if we get rid of all coaches. Who would be available to just come in on a moment's notice and take over?

[TonySoprano]

The new manager should decide what to do with Crowley and the rest of the coaches. Personally, I've defended Crowley against attempts to scapegoat him on many past occasions, but I think a new perspective may be warranted.

I submit that the team should fire Crowley first, before Trembley, to see if the hitters respond to that change.

I think the description fits Jim Palmer even better, except the experienced ML Manager part.

When he was manager of the Nationals, Frank pulled a player (name escapes me at the moment) out of the game in the middle of an inning for making a boneheaded play.

[hoosiers]

I've been a pretty constant critic of DT and perhaps a change is needed, but I believe he'd be more of a scapegoat than anything else at this point.

Roberts is a killer injury and the entire start is just unfathomable given the quality of the SP through the sixth inning on most nights.

If Markakis and Jones are not going to hit, no manager is going to lead us through this period. We are not fielding a major league lineup right now.

I'm actually impressed that DT is not over-managing right now.

[Sports Guy]

But we have had some fairly solid offenses over the years. It's never really been the problem. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but you can't deny that this streak is the poorest we've seen in a long time, when you think of the talent we have at the plate, or at least should have at the plate.

How are you defining this? I don't think this is correct unless by solid, you mean league average or slightly worse.

[DrungoHazewood]

Thanks for your reply.
The 30-3 game was the the first part. The way the team has played at the end of the last two years was the second part. I know I'm in the minority here with this opinion, but I don't ever want to see a manager of my team allow the team to take a beating like that. Many people will say hey it's only one game, but a loss like that hangs on an organization a long while. I'll bet opposing players (particularly first baseman) rubbed our noses in it for a while afterward. Now one might wonder what Trembley could have done about it. I would have brought my best pitcher in the game once the score had gotten to 25 and told him to do whatever it took to stop it right there and then. That would have been Bedard. Second game be damned. We weren't in a pennant race, so the second game really meant nothing. Just my two cents.

Edit: Personally, I would never want to be associated with a loss like that. I'm too damn competitive. I have always thought that anyone willing to absorb a beating like that without fighting back was a loser.

Once it got to 18 or 20 runs I'd have put in the left fielder or the utility infielder to pitch and treated the game as the goofy farce that it was. I would have let Steve Trachsel play third base if he wanted. If DT had put the ace in and ordered him to stop the bleeding no matter what, I'd have lost my faith in him as a manager right there.

[SilentJames]

How are you defining this? I don't think this is correct unless by solid, you mean league average or slightly worse.

Pretty much, being right around league average is a solid offense in my mind.

Anything better I would classify as "good", but that is just semantics. It seems to me that the thing has always been the lack of effective pitchers in key areas.

To me something that is solid is something that gives you a chance to win more games than you lose but not really good enough to take you any further than that or make up for other shortcomings.

Even with a slightly below league average offense (depending on how slight it is) if you have league average pitching you should be right around .500.

[Sports Guy]

How are you defining this? I don't think this is correct unless by solid, you mean league average or slightly worse.

Last 5 seasons(AL rankings):

2005:

10th in runs...42 runs worse than league average
5th in OPS...7 points above league average
8th in OBP...3 points below league average

2006:

10th in runs...36 runs worse than league average
9th in OPS...13 points worse than league average
8th in OBP...league average

2007:

9th in runs...38 runs worse than league average
10th in OPS....14 points below league average
9th in OBP...5 points below league average

2008:

8th in runs...7 more than league average
8th in OPS...7 points above league average
8th in OBP...2 poitns below league average

2009:

11th in runs...40 runs below league average
10th in OPS..16 points below league average
8th in OBP...3 points below league average

That's just the last 5 years...How is that solid?

[NewMarketSean]

Before yesterday's game, the TV guys were talking about the M's offense and how they know they are a weak offense. So to compensate for that, their hitting coach was preaching patience across the board.

The same thing needs to happen here.

[Tony-OH]

Thanks for your reply.
The 30-3 game was the the first part. The way the team has played at the end of the last two years was the second part. I know I'm in the minority here with this opinion, but I don't ever want to see a manager of my team allow the team to take a beating like that. Many people will say hey it's only one game, but a loss like that hangs on an organization a long while. I'll bet opposing players (particularly first baseman) rubbed our noses in it for a while afterward. Now one might wonder what Trembley could have done about it. I would have brought my best pitcher in the game once the score had gotten to 25 and told him to do whatever it took to stop it right there and then. That would have been Bedard. Second game be damned. .

No offense, and I know you are new, but that may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on here and that's saying something.