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mikezpen

I don't want to hear this "chemistry" crap

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No offense to those people but who cares?

I care.

Players talk to each other. When team chemistry is good, they are more likely to say, "Baltimore is a great place to play, the guys are great here." And I think it matters to fans who prefer their players to enjoy themselves and the company of their teammates even if they are losing.

And chemistry may not be a minor issue when it comes to attracting FA or resigning the guys who'll matter in the future. It doesn't eclipse dollars but it's a factor.

If we're saying good chemistry means good morale, it can be a stabilizing influence on a rebuilding team. It makes a losing season palatable even though players understand losing years are inevitable with rebuilding.

That said, a club contributes to good morale by treating players like adults and acknowledging their contributions by paying them what they're worth. Which is something I'd like the Orioles to be known for.

Chemistry isn't that big a factor on a winning ballclub as wins create its own chemistry, but for a rebuilding team, chemistry can be an important part of a player's life in the same way chemistry at our own places of work are can be a gratifying part of our own lives.

Sometimes chemistry matters, sometimes it's less important and it certainly isn't essential for wins. But let's not underestimate its value in a rebuilding team, or even its desirability in a winning team. It's a good thing to have even when its not necessarily an essential thing to have. It probably doesn't create wins, but it makes it easier for players to make it through the day when the wins don't.

I still cling to the illusion that a player's sense of belonging in the clubhouse is important to the fans that care, in the personal sense about their team. Those types of fans prefer it to be equally important to the owner, GM and manager. When we watch our team, it just feels better to know that it really is a team out there, not a bunch of guys who just happened to come to work that day. That's a bit too warm and fuzzy for most, but I like the added dimension of pleasure it gives me when I sense the players might be as human as I am.

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If the players believe in it and say it matters, isn't that proof enough? Yes we all know chemistry can't be measured but if the players who are in the clubhouse, on the field, playing 162 games a year and are with each other almost everyday and they say it exists what else would you need to believe in it?

Anyone here ever had a job that they hated going to? Dislike a fellow employee or two and just didn't like going to work to have to deal with them all day? Did it make you look for a new job? It's no different then chemistry on a team. If you don't like the people you work/play with, you don't want to be there and you probably don't care as much as you should.

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I care.

Players talk to each other. When team chemistry is good, they are more likely to say, "Baltimore is a great place to play, the guys are great here." And I think it matters to fans who prefer their players to enjoy themselves and the company of their teammates even if they are losing.

And chemistry may not be a minor issue when it comes to attracting FA or resigning the guys who'll matter in the future. It doesn't eclipse dollars but it's a factor.

I really like this point. The business side, players talk each other and also to agents. If Agent represents Player A and Player B. Player A is phased out in the last year of his contact to give a prospect a chance or Player A has a brutal opinion of the team or city, I'd imagine that information gets relayed to Player B. It wouldn't be the only factor, but if comparable offers come in, it would come up.

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What if this is part of a larger picture that we are missing? What if the is AM/FO establishing a system of player development? What if they sit back and say - this is how we want players to develop and we are not going to change that 14 months into the process just because we have a couple of vets coming off the payroll next year?

What if - while admitting the Payton is no Andruw Jones and Castro is no Ozze Smith - they decide that they want to protect their young pitchers (however you want to define "young") by having a strong defense up the middle? What if they decided that they want Millar to play out the string because he may qualify as a Type B free agent?

What if this team does have chemistry that has been building for 2 years now and they want young players who progress to the majors to experience that same chemistry?

I do not think it is what people are missing it is that they do not want to listen to what AM has said. He maintained from day 1 that he was going to be slow and patient promoting people that we no longer were going to rush the kids and that he felt having guys advance together (part of the old Oriole way) and also winning at the minor league level was very important. DT will play the kids when the kids that are up are ones who are capable. To date he has been given Adam Jones....played every day. Who else that has been here should have played. Salazar....Moore....AAAA players that at least two other teams moved away on. I really think that if Wieters does not get a Sptember call he will get a month or so in AAA to start 09, unless he does a makakis and pounds his way on the team. Montanez is here only because he has been to AAA before, has been in the minors for 8 years and mashed at AA. If he was at a similar place as Wieters, Tike Redman would be here now. AM grew up in the Orioles hey day and that is how they did it. BAylor, Grich, Rettemund, Johnson, Blefary etc. all had to wait their time.

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You never hear of good chemistry on a bad team.

Gee I wonder why. Could it be there is a bit of a relationship there?

Talent alone can win but it can be difficult to sustain long term (yes, Yankee teams have done it). You win in spite of each other and the whole thing often unravels uneccessarily.

Chemistry without talent can sometimes carry you short distances as well because the sum > parts but is rarely sustainable.

The ideal is to have both talent and chemistry.

Geez am I sounding like Rshack?

Why do you never hear about a team where the players love playing together and are all great friends, but just really suck?

If chemistry was something that existed, you would hear things like that. For example, SG's point about the Trachsel deal: a great clubhouse on a terrible team, yet I don't remember many positive comments about the clubhouse late in the season last year.

If it mattered, wouldn't someone have said, "They do enjoy playing together a lot and have a very loose clubhouse. This could give them an advantage next season."

You only hear about good chemistry on good teams.

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Anyone here ever had a job that they hated going to? Dislike a fellow employee or two and just didn't like going to work to have to deal with them all day? Did it make you look for a new job? It's no different then chemistry on a team. If you don't like the people you work/play with, you don't want to be there and you probably don't care as much as you should.

Then I would question that person's work ethic and wouldn't want them around anyway.

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If the players believe in it and say it matters, isn't that proof enough? Yes we all know chemistry can't be measured but if the players who are in the clubhouse, on the field, playing 162 games a year and are with each other almost everyday and they say it exists what else would you need to believe in it?

Because we are talking about something existing that helps the team perform better, yet no one can give a real explanation that stands up to scrutiny.

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I find it amazing that people who have never been on a professional ball club are convinced that chemistry means nothing and then dismiss people who would know better than they. We have people here that are IN THE CLUBHOUSE on a nightly basis, they say different

Well, I didn't realize all of that was a prerequisite to make observations about the sport.

Did you know you can also judge a pitcher solely by wins and a hitter by RBIs?

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Here we go again...

People on this board don't like "chemistry" because you can't slap a stat on it. It can't be quantified.

And for a board, that is consumed with WHIPS, DIPS, and potato chips, salaries and numerous hypothetical trades, the notion of chemistry, this thing that cannot be measured by a number, is frustrating.

And therefore, it's dismissed. It's not important.

But if it's important to the players and they believe in it, I'll take their word for it.

Good stuff, man. Honestly, if "chemistry" wasn't important, then the Red Sox would still have a HOFer in left field everyday...

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Good stuff, man. Honestly, if "chemistry" wasn't important, then the Red Sox would still have a HOFer in left field everyday...

I am not sure you if you would find anyone on this board that would say chemistry isn't important.

But that isn't now nor has it ever been the argument.

Let's get to the point where we can really focus on chemsitry and its importance...Right now many things are more important.

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Because we are talking about something existing that helps the team perform better, yet no one can give a real explanation that stands up to scrutiny.

You obviously have a deep love and passion for the Orioles... there is no doubt about that. But let me ask you something - is there a statistic out there to directly prove how much you love them? Sure - you can say I go to so many games - but so do guys in suits who are bringing clients to the game.

You are asking for statistics that prove emotion... and there just isn't any. You just may not be a person who is build around emotions and there is nothing wrong with that - but for every one of you there are probably 5 who are.

But just because you cannot prove it does not mean it does not exist.

Edited by glorydays

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I am not sure you if you would find anyone on this board that would say chemistry isn't important.

But that isn't now nor has it ever been the argument.

Let's get to the point where we can really focus on chemsitry and its importance...Right now many things are more important.

For me, IF the Chemistry can lead to, or close to, a .500 season, that makes chemistry more important to me than bringing up youngsters in August and playing them instead. Obviously, if we're losing and losing and losing, that changes things for me. As RShack pointed out, I think this season has to have shown some value for the players who played it.

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For me, IF the Chemistry can lead to, or close to, a .500 season, that makes chemistry more important to me than bringing up youngsters in August and playing them instead. Obviously, if we're losing and losing and losing, that changes things for me. As RShack pointed out, I think this season has to have shown some value for the players who played it.

So you don't do the right thing regarding the future of this team for the slight chance you can be 500?

Sorry but that doesn't make sense to me and besides, i think the younger guys would be upgrades anyway.

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You obviously have a deep love and passion for the Orioles... there is no doubt about that. But let me ask you something - is there a statistic out there to directly prove how much you love them? Sure - you can say I go to so many games - but so do guys in suits who are bringing clients to the game.

You are asking for statistics that prove emotion... and there just isn't any. You just may not be a person who is build around emotions and there is nothing wrong with that - but for every one of you there are probably 5 who are.

But just because you cannot prove it does not mean it does not exist.

My love for the team doesn't affect their play on the field in any possible way.

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You only hear about good chemistry on good teams.

Because, as always, winning is the bottom line. Bad teams with good chemistry are still bad teams, and as long as they keep losing, that chemistry is going to continually deteriorate, unless you have players who simply don't care. Regardless, better players are still the answer, chemistry can be created. You'd be amazed how folks who despise each other can magically begin coping once they prove they can make each other more successful.

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