Jump to content
Tony-OH

2020 Orioles draft review: Elias ends up with three first round talents

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Explosivo said:

 I wasn't. Did you not read my response? I said it didn't matter what side of the political spectrum his statement was about. It was the fact he made a statement at all. No other top prospect chose to do so. I'm merely positing that that means something about that particular player. I could care less what his politics are. I am merely showing that it is a reflection of his character for him to make any message at all. That's it. 

What does it reflect about his character? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, joelala said:

What does it reflect about his character? 

 

Well it's difficult to pinpoint exactly. Just odd that he is the only one doing so and when you are being as selective as one is afforded with the number two pick, every glimpse into the psyche of the person in question matters. I'm more worried about his future position defensively, his lack of power and his arm strength to be honest. But I do think to scout a player is to scout a person. Analytics is a tool and so is psychology. We are multifaceted and each facet requires examination. That's why the interview process is important. It may not be as important as grading the player out, but it is a factor. So what does it say about his character? I can't give a fair answer as I have never had the opportunity to watch the kid in that capacity or to sit down and talk with the kid. I can say in his answers to the media, they are a lot more mercurial than I would hope. These are tiny red flags for sure but again, we were in a position to be as choosey as we would like to be. I think we made a wise choice. We will find out in three years and I look forward to revisiting this topic at that time. Either way, go O's and here's to a playoff calibur team in 3-5 years. 

Edited by Explosivo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Explosivo said:

Well it's difficult to pinpoint exactly. Just odd that he is the only one doing so and when you are being as selective as one is afforded with the number two pick, every glimpse into the psyche of the person in question matters. I'm more worried about his future position defensively, his lack of power and his arm strength to be honest. But I do think to scout a player is to scout a person. Analytics is a tool and so is psychology. We are multifaceted and each facet requires examination. That's why the interview process is important. It may not be as important as grading the player out, but it is a factor. So what does it say about his character? I can't give a fair answer as I have never had the opportunity to watch the kid in that capacity or to sit down and talk with the kid. I can say in his answers to the media, they are a lot more mercurial than I would hope. These are tiny red flags for sure but again, we were in a position to be as choosey as we would like to be. I think we made a wise choice. We will find out in three years and I look forward to revisiting this topic at that time. Either way, go O's and here's to a playoff calibur team in 3-5 years. 

Hell yea, go O’s. And as to your point, I guess I understand the thinking but will agree to disagree. And I did watch a Martin interview and to me, he came off as extremely earnest and well thought. I like that the young man is passionate about something other than baseball, that he has a sense of a higher purpose, a bigger picture perhaps. One COULD make the  argument even that it is a positive, especially in baseball which can be a very dark and lonely sport when one is mired in an 0-20 slump...

Bottom line: like it or not, we are in a time when our circumstances as a country have politicized virtually all forms of entertainment, I don’t think we can safely and fairly deduce anything negative about the young man through his choice to use his platform and visibility to support a cause he is passionate about. 
 

This debate is an interesting and important one  I think, though perhaps not for these message boards.  So agree to disagree and know that I respect your views on the issue. Again, go O’s!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Eric-OH said:

A brand called Panini.  They’re on sale at Target here in Sarasota.  They go all the way down to the U15 team so I strangely got an autographed card from someone in 10th grade.  We all need baseball back badly.

Dude, are your Targets/Wal-Marts still stocking cards?  Up here in Northern VA they've been cleaned out for the past month or so.  I really only buy Topps but they don't have anything from any of the other brands, either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think its correct to call Baumler a first round talent.    MLB Pipeline rated him as the 57th best pitcher in the draft.  And signability had nothing to do with that rating.  The pitchers rated above him had better fastball, breaking pitches, change and/or better control.

Baumler projects to help the O's but that says more about the level on pitching talent in the O's system then anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wildcard said:

I don't think its correct to call Baumler a first round talent.    MLB Pipeline rated him as the 57th best pitcher in the draft.  And signability had nothing to do with that rating.  The pitchers rated above him had better fastball, breaking pitches, change and/or better control.

Baumler projects to help the O's but that says more about the level on pitching talent in the O's system then anything else.

“First round talent” is one of those phrases that means different things to different people.   No. 3 overall pick Max Meyer was chosen in the 34th round out of high school - was he not a “first round talent” then?    Asa Lacy (no. 4) - 31st round.   Emerson Hancock (no. 6) - 38th.    So I think in many cases, calling a high schooler a “first round talent” means he’s someone who would have a good chance of being drafted in the first round if they went to college for three years and developed as expected.    Then there are guys who slip due to money concerns, or who are very talented but have injury concerns.     Lots of ways to look at it.    

For me, I’m happy to call our two late picks second round talents, if it makes people feel better.    

And there is plenty of pitching talent in our minor league system.    We are above average on that front.     The real problem is that our major league pitching is terrible so it’s not like the rising minor leaguers just need to fill in a couple of holes.    

 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I've been suckered. What did Martin's t-shirt say? Can't find it on the web.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Ok, I've been suckered. What did Martin' t-shirt say? Can't find it on the web.

It really was innocuous. It said "more than an athlete". Its more about how it set him apart. You could look at it as a negative or a positive or neutral. It's not about the political message even if there was one at all. Its just a window into the psyche of the player. And go O's. I want nothing more than to be able to share a World Series with my dad before he passes. He has battled cancer, diabetes, and is still going strong. But man, we need a window to open up because 5 years from now may be a different story. I think that's the main reason why I'm taking such investment in this rebuild and will be vocal in the near future. Go O's!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Frobby said:

“First round talent” is one of those phrases that means different things to different people.   No. 3 overall pick Max Meyer was chosen in the 34th round out of high school - was he not a “first round talent” then?    Asa Macy (no. 4) - 31st round.   Emerson Hancock (no. 6) - 38th.    So I think in many cases, calling a high schooler a “first round talent” means he’s someone who would have a good chance of being drafted in the first round if they went to college for three years and developed as expected.    Then there are guys who slip due to money concerns, or who are very talented but have injury concerns.     Lots of ways to look at it.    

For me, I’m happy to call our two late picks second round talents, if it makes people feel better.    

And there is plenty of pitching talent in our minor league system.    We are above average on that front.     The real problem is that our major league pitching is terrible so it’s not like the rising minor leaguers just need to fill in a couple of holes.    

 

This is kind of how I look at it, too.  Might not have been slam dunk first round talents this year but certainly look like they were headed that way in the future after college.  Also, maybe either Mayo or Baumler slides into the 2nd round if they weren't perceived as hard guys to sign this year.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Explosivo said:

It really was innocuous. It said "more than an athlete". Its more about how it set him apart. You could look at it as a negative or a positive or neutral. It's not about the political message even if there was one at all. Its just a window into the psyche of the player. And go O's. I want nothing more than to be able to share a World Series with my dad before he passes. He has battled cancer, diabetes, and is still going strong. But man, we need a window to open up because 5 years from now may be a different story. I think that's the main reason why I'm taking such investment in this rebuild and will be vocal in the near future. Go O's!

OK, thanks. Best wishes for your father's health and his enjoying the next O's World Championship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m kind of wondering what the people at Blue Bird banter thought about their draft? It’s not just one player, but 6.

no one knows for sure yet, but maybe the potential of our crop is greater than that of the Jays’?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Philip said:

I’m kind of wondering what the people at Blue Bird banter thought about their draft? It’s not just one player, but 6.

no one knows for sure yet, but maybe the potential of our crop is greater than that of the Jays’?

There’s not been a lot of analysis short of being pumped they got Martin at 5. We won’t know who “won” for 4-5 years.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

There’s not been a lot of analysis short of being pumped they got Martin at 5. We won’t know who “won” for 4-5 years.

Exactly, but the purpose of the question was to suggest that the Reactions are all in the moment, and no one will know for a while how the choices work out.

Our fresh out of high school guys won’t be hitting the big for 4 years. That’s a long time to hold your breath.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Philip said:

Exactly, but the purpose of the question was to suggest that the Reactions are all in the moment, and no one will know for a while how the choices work out.

Our fresh out of high school guys won’t be hitting the big for 4 years. That’s a long time to hold your breath.

Well that’s the hard part about a complete organizational overhaul, which the Orioles are really still just starting.

Ideally in 3-5 years diehard fans will still been keenly award of the 17-18 year old high school kids we’re drafting, but not getting impatient over their long roads to the majors - because we’ll have a better baseball organization as a whole and won’t have to be desperately awaiting any small bit of good news. It’s just that right now... we’re a good ways out from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2020 Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2020 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • It seems like that the only possible way that the O’s (or most teams for that matter) can compete is by building an elite farm system.  Given how hard and how slow that process is, I wanted to ask the O’s experts on here a few simple question for discussion:   1. how long would you estimate that it takes for a team to go from a mediocre/poor farm system, to a system that has produced enough major league talent to win in the AL east?  Additionally, how long in your opinion does the pro club need to suck while building the farm. 2. is there a team that you would prefer that the O’s model their approach after?  Is it Tampa?  Toronto? St. Louis?  I think the Tampa model is the most brutally efficient, but I can’t see many people truly being happy with that model in the long haul (getting rid of good players while value is high, rarely spending a dollar in FA). 3. do you like the financial model of baseball as opposed to other professional leagues?  Baseball has always been my favorite sport, but it really seems to favor the larger market teams in the end.  Not that smaller market teams can’t compete, it’s just that every year it seems the larger market teams win.  I know there are some poor large market orgs, but I personally get disinterested when I see how imbalanced the competitive landscape can be at times.  
    • Same chance of getting you a championship in 2022.
    • o   lllllllllllllllllllllll. (vs. MARINERS, 12:35 PM)       llllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll        llllllllllllllllllllll.l (vs. MARINERS, 4:05 PM)     llllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll    o
    • Contracts like Davis really hurts the game overall more than it hurts the individual team. Typically teams that have a bad contract just pick up and move on from the player...meanwhile the fans hold a grudge towards the player. Baltimore is doing a disservice to the game by not releasing him and moving on.
    • Yikes. Here's what the O's gave up in 24 hrs.:     WAR, 1991 ff.     Finley        43.5     Harnisch    17.6     Schilling    80.2     Tettleton    17.9     Total lost: 159.2 Davis        0.2     Robinson    -0.6     Total gained: -0.4         Total, net: 159.6 10 yrs    16 WAR/yr.     16 yrs.    10 WAR/yr.    
    • My wife and I went to Sunday's game with another couple and had a great time. A couple observations: - Bottom line up front is that I'd very much encourage folks to go. We've been relatively cautious during Covid, but really at no point felt cramped or uncomfortable. Certainly some of that is that now most of the folks I was with were fully vaccinated, but there's plenty of space in between seats and really not that many people. Even coming into the stadium and in concession lines, people were generally respectful of distance and it was no issue. I'm sure, anecdotally, there will always be someone messing up, but it wasn't an issue for us. Just wanted to start with that context for those that harbor understandable apprehensions, acknowledging everyone has different circumstances/risk perceptions. - Definitely make sure you read the modified regulations before you go - the issue with purses and parking, as some folks noted above, are definitely present. You've just got to be aware of them and plan (my wife switched out her purse just before leaving the house, and my friend's wife had a borderline-sized purse that got waved through after a little negotiation). I can't speak for parking, as we just did a garage on Pratt. - Mobile ticketing and electronic payments were all fully in use, so do recommend just coming prepared. If you're comfortable with using them, it's no issue, but understand some people aren't as tech savvy. Just a pretty minor planning factor. - Regarding masks, most people were good about wearing them, though clearly some of that slipped when people were sitting at their seats. I did see a few times where ushers enforced the masking at your seat rule, but it didn't seem overly draconian (it wasn't that if your beer left your lips for more than two seconds and your mask wasn't up, ushers would descend on you). Those patrons I observed were mostly compliant when directed (except the stray Phillies fan who decided to be difficult). Although I know some folks aren't crazy about it, to be honest, I've been at work every day for the last year wearing a mask the entire time for 8+ hours, so I'm not especially sympathetic. Little bit of a pain, but won't kill ya for a couple hours. - As others have stated, most but not all concessions appeared to be open. Prices did feel a touch on the steep side, but I'd bet they're comparable to what they were in 2019. The O's clearly haven't moved to the Ravens modified pricing. - Lastly, the bar scene before the game was of course quite different than normal, but still very workable and pleasant. Pickles, Sliders, etc have taken over huge spaces in front of their buildings, with plentiful tables well-spaced out. We got to Sliders at maybe 11:45 before a 1 o'clock game on a Sunday, and we had no issue getting a table. Again, overall would recommend folks go, if you're comfortable. I'll tell you it was absolutely great to get back out there and do something normal after having been cooped up for so long.
    • One last thought. When the reserve clause died in court and all players could become free agents every year, the players union was smart and agreed to a service requirement. It was good for salaries and good for the sport to control supply/demand, even if it seemed like a giveaway by the players. If there was a non-performance clause built into free agent contracts that gave some level of relief to owners, it would benefit salaries and the sport. Small to mid size teams would have more ability to chase top talent because the affect of a bad contract would be less calamitous to their limited payroll means if it was discounted by some percentage for non-performance. Ask Scott Boras if he’d rather have three teams bidding for his client or six. Our very own Albert Belle contract made insuring contracts fairly cost prohibitive (though it kinda seems like we’re keeping Davis on the roster for some reason other than insanity). But that practice of insuring contracts showed that there’s more money to spend on players if you give owners some level of protection from disaster contracts like Davis. Owners used to pay huge amounts to insure contracts before they became cost prohibitive. So if it’s good for competitiveness by allowing smaller teams to be more aggressive, and it’s good for player salaries, and it’s good for owners by protecting their investments, by what principle is a player entitled to the full value of a contract that they have essentially defaulted on for non-performance? 
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...