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Greenpastures23

(Edit: Orioles get 1st pick after walkoff homer by Diamondbacks)

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On 8/13/2021 at 11:24 AM, Greenpastures23 said:

That's amazing to me

Your prediction is hopefully in jeopardy.

 

5 hours ago, fitzi22 said:

10 losses in a row. Arizona here we come!!!

Thaaaa D-backs win, the D-backs win!!!

I know, not the same ring to it, but hoping for a number one pick seems more within reach than watching this team play any meaningful baseball.

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1 hour ago, Beysbol said:

Gilbert threw a no hitter in his first ever start tonight for AZ. SD is probably going to lose their playoff spot to Cincinnati, which doesn't surprise me. 😂

I don't know if the Reds will surpass the Padres, but they have played better the last two months. And Joey Votto isn't washed up yet. Votto is scorching hot since the all star break with 15 home runs and a 1.293 OPS. 

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I know Elias says fans need to be patient but this is getting ridiculous. Sure, we all knew we wouldn't be competitive this year, but there seems to be no attempt to even remotely put a watchable product on the field.

I actually like Hyde but sadly for him he's been put in a no-win situation (pun intended). When we finally do start bringing up the good young players (and become respectable and not a laughing stock), he will be long gone.

I'm glad Elias has built up our farm system. Glad we've expanded into the internatonal market... finally. But I'm tired of our Baltimore Orioles being seen as a joke of a Major League team.

Edited by gtman55
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2 hours ago, gtman55 said:

I know Elias says fans need to be patient but this is getting ridiculous. Sure, we all knew we wouldn't be competitive this year, but there seems to be no attempt to even remotely put a watchable product on the field.

I actually like Hyde but sadly for him he's been put in a no-win situation (pun intended). When we finally do start bringing up the good young players (and become respectable and not a laughing stock), he will be long gone.

I'm glad Elias has built up our farm system. Glad we've expanded into the internatonal market... finally. But I'm tired of our Baltimore Orioles being seen as a joke of a Major League team.

Fix the system.  Seven of the 30 MLB teams are at least 18 games out of first and are done for the year.  Plus teams like the Nats who were within shouting distance of a wildcard before throwing in the towel.  When there are no real consequences to losing and real benefits to draft position and saving on expenses teams will follow the incentives.

It is the way it is because the entire history of MLB involves accepting that many teams will simply not be competitive for years on end.  If they really wanted to fix this they could have.  But they prioritize the owners' finances and wishes over the fans and they always have.

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2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Fix the system.  Seven of the 30 MLB teams are at least 18 games out of first and are done for the year.  Plus teams like the Nats who were within shouting distance of a wildcard before throwing in the towel.  When there are no real consequences to losing and real benefits to draft position and saving on expenses teams will follow the incentives.

It is the way it is because the entire history of MLB involves accepting that many teams will simply not be competitive for years on end.  If they really wanted to fix this they could have.  But they prioritize the owners' finances and wishes over the fans and they always have.

We just need to wait until one of the Dodgers, Red Sox or Yankees tries a four year rebuild and that will upset enough people that something will happen.  It worked with steroids, sign stealing and spider tack.

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Is it really better in the NFL, where they have a salary cap and floor, etc.?  I count 8 teams who won 5 games or less last year - that’s the equivalent of 50 games or less in baseball.  Another three won 6 games.   How many of those teams were realistically “in it” halfway through the season?

Basketball, which has salary restrictions on both ends, had five teams playing below the winning percentage that gets you to 50 wins in baseball.   The worst team went 17-55, the equivalent of a 55-game season.   

In other words, I’m not sure a salary floor fixes the problem.   I realize that every sport is different and just by the nature of the sport itself it’s more likely that a bad team can beat a good one on any given day, compared to football and basketball.  

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3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Is it really better in the NFL, where they have a salary cap and floor, etc.?  I count 8 teams who won 5 games or less last year - that’s the equivalent of 50 games or less in baseball.  Another three won 6 games.   How many of those teams were realistically “in it” halfway through the season?

Basketball, which has salary restrictions on both ends, had five teams playing below the winning percentage that gets you to 50 wins in baseball.   The worst team went 17-55, the equivalent of a 55-game season.   

In other words, I’m not sure a salary floor fixes the problem.   I realize that every sport is different and just by the nature of the sport itself it’s more likely that a bad team can beat a good one on any given day, compared to football and basketball.  

The NFL still has the unbalanced schedule right?  If the 2022 Orioles play 20 games each against the Rangers and Diamondback one of those teams is going to win more games next year.

Won't mean the team is actually better.

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2 hours ago, gtman55 said:

I know Elias says fans need to be patient but this is getting ridiculous. Sure, we all knew we wouldn't be competitive this year, but there seems to be no attempt to even remotely put a watchable product on the field.

I actually like Hyde but sadly for him he's been put in a no-win situation (pun intended). When we finally do start bringing up the good young players (and become respectable and not a laughing stock), he will be long gone.

I'm glad Elias has built up our farm system. Glad we've expanded into the internatonal market... finally. But I'm tired of our Baltimore Orioles being seen as a joke of a Major League team.

I am not sure that there is a more patient or tolerant fanbase in any sport than this one. Elias is fortunate that he got a job leading this organization and not one whose fans actually hold it accountable for on the field results. I agree that it is good that the farm system is improved and that we have expanded into the international market. But they don't hang banners for those things......or banners for who can have the lowest team payroll.  So eventually (as in next season), we need to start seeing real progress in the major league product.  It should not take this long to be competent.  

Hyde has a career winning percentage as a manager under .350.  I don't know where that ranks historically for someone who has managed as many games as he has, but it has to be pretty bad. While I am sure the paycheck is good and the perks of being on a major league team are great, I cannot imagine anybody enjoying the job he has.  If you have a single competitive bone in your body (and I am not sure that anyone in the warehouse actually does), you can't possibly be okay losing this much.  Since he won't resign, I hope for his sake they fire him after this season so that he can be a bench coach for another team that maybe cares a bit more about winning and he can restore what is left of his pride.  

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Is it really better in the NFL, where they have a salary cap and floor, etc.?  I count 8 teams who won 5 games or less last year - that’s the equivalent of 50 games or less in baseball.  Another three won 6 games.   How many of those teams were realistically “in it” halfway through the season?

Basketball, which has salary restrictions on both ends, had five teams playing below the winning percentage that gets you to 50 wins in baseball.   The worst team went 17-55, the equivalent of a 55-game season.   

In other words, I’m not sure a salary floor fixes the problem.   I realize that every sport is different and just by the nature of the sport itself it’s more likely that a bad team can beat a good one on any given day, compared to football and basketball.  

Part of it is that we don't know the standard deviation of organizational competence compared to the standard deviation of revenues.  It's hard to disentangle the two.  It's possible that in a universe where each MLB gets $300M in revenues, no more, no less, you still have teams win 60 and others win 105 and success and failure is persistent.

We do know that in the pre-free agency era that the Yanks won almost every year and the Browns and Senators and Philles and others were God-awful for generations.  But even then resources and resource difference were huge.  The Yanks often drew three, five, ten times as many fans as other teams when gate revenues were probably 80% of total revenues. 

But at least they could set up a framework where teams actually care about this year's wins every year.  Unfortunately they've never done that yet in 150 years.

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1 hour ago, JR Oriole said:

I am not sure that there is a more patient or tolerant fanbase in any sport than this one. Elias is fortunate that he got a job leading this organization and not one whose fans actually hold it accountable for on the field results. I agree that it is good that the farm system is improved and that we have expanded into the international market. But they don't hang banners for those things......or banners for who can have the lowest team payroll.  So eventually (as in next season), we need to start seeing real progress in the major league product.  It should not take this long to be competent.  

Hyde has a career winning percentage as a manager under .350.  I don't know where that ranks historically for someone who has managed as many games as he has, but it has to be pretty bad. While I am sure the paycheck is good and the perks of being on a major league team are great, I cannot imagine anybody enjoying the job he has.  If you have a single competitive bone in your body (and I am not sure that anyone in the warehouse actually does), you can't possibly be okay losing this much.  Since he won't resign, I hope for his sake they fire him after this season so that he can be a bench coach for another team that maybe cares a bit more about winning and he can restore what is left of his pride.  

I'm not entirely sure why you're approaching this as a problem of not winning games now.  You act like Elias and Hyde are being judged by 2019-2021 win totals.  They're not being judged on any such thing. It's 98% on how they're setting up the 2023-2033 Orioles for success.  It's always been that way.  They more-or-less explicitly stated that when Elias was hired.  Elias' and Hyde's fitrep report doesn't even have a box for wins.

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

The NFL still has the unbalanced schedule right?  If the 2022 Orioles play 20 games each against the Rangers and Diamondback one of those teams is going to win more games next year.

Won't mean the team is actually better.

Also, the shorter the schedule the more each game is a true representation of talent.  If the NFL played 100 games they would have to rely more and more on depth and the skill of backups and each game would be much closer matchups.  If Tom Brady could only start 30% of the time his teams wouldn't be as good.  If MLB played 16 games some teams would win 14 or 15, occasionally 16.  They'd start Randy Johnson every single game and have him go seven innings.

And the NBA is different because of the structure of basketball.  Because a game involves like 100 or 200 possessions or whatever, the better team wins a much larger percentage of the time than in most other sports.

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It is probably a bridge too far to hope for a balanced schedule return.   That would help the next few years until the teams get good enough to hold their own with the rest of the division.   But I think the gist of it is the players don't like the travel, and the owners don't like the travel expenses, so that's perhaps the one thing they've got.

 

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