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DrungoHazewood

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Everything posted by DrungoHazewood

  1. That was definitely a problem. They'd burn all the time, sometimes in the middle of the game. I think it was 1894 where several parks burnt down in a short amount of time, and rumors went around about a baseball arsonist. But collapses were not unheard-of, either. Sometimes they literally threw up some bleachers in the weeks before the season; this wasn't Janet Marie Smith and HOK drawing up plans four years ahead of time. In January it was the vacant lot at 22nd and Elm, and in April they're playing major league games there.
  2. I say they should also play in Sun Devil Stadium, configured either like the LA Coliseum or the Polo Grounds. At least one sub-250' line, and CF goes on forever. Because why not? It's already a crazy season.
  3. The BBWAA doesn't elect managers and executives, it's the Veterans Committee, or equivalent. They change the rules and makeup and details of those committees so often I have trouble reading much into low long it took Sparky or Earl to get inducted. It seems like half the time it's eight or 10 old guys sitting around free-associating players they used to play with they'd like to see get inducted. See: Harold Baines.
  4. There's 10 spring training stadiums, plus whatever they call the D'back's stadium now. All basically in Phoenix. 16 might be a stretch. They could do like they used to in the 1800s: you build a new one out of wood in three weeks and hope it doesn't collapse on opening day. Less risk with no spectators.
  5. We talked about this in another thread recently. He was hurt in '72, but in '71 he hit 18 homers with Memorial Stadium being a bit of a pitcher's park. Fulton County had a HR park effect on par with Colorado. So from '71 to ''73 he went from 10 road homers to 17. Which isn't that crazy, I guess.
  6. Goslin was a 1920s and 30s version of, I don't know... Andre Dawson or Dwight Evans or Dave Winfield. Somewhere in there. Had a huge home/road HR split (92/156) because Griffith Stadium was just impossible to hit homers in. It's was like 402 to left and over 350 to RF with a huge concrete wall. Averill's career was like Kirby Puckett, in the 30s. Center fielder, relatively short career, marginal HOFer on career value. Although he played three full, peak years in the PCL back when they were independent that he should probably get some extra credit for. Which mostly accounts for him not making his MLB debut until 27. From age 27+ Averill was worth more than Mantle, Gwynn, Kaline, Stargell, McCovey, about on par with Biggio, Thome, Manny Ramirez.
  7. Kaline is a lot closer to Clemente or Yaz than Aparicio. And Aparicio only played five years in Baltimore.
  8. A great hero and a great traitor to Baltimore. He brought the city their first three pennants. Then he colluded with Brooklyn and transferred most of the best players from his dynasty north, leading to the contraction of the old NL Orioles.
  9. I think the only manager inducted between Earl's retirement and his induction was Leo Durocher, who retired in '73 and died in '91. I thought it was nice they inducted Earl and Ned Hanlon at the same time. Foxy Ned had to wait 59 years after he died.
  10. The difference between best and worst teams generally decreases over time. It's changed a bit the last few years with fewer teams willing to spend $100M+ to win 70 games. The 1875 Boston Red Stockings won 90% of their games. In 1884 the St. Louis Maroons went 94-19. The 1906 Cubs won 116 in a 154 game schedule. The 1916 A's went 36-117. It was easier to have extreme winning percentages the farther back in time you go. In any case, I concur with Corn and Frobby. Earl got his due. He didn't have much trouble going to Cooperstown despite being 33rd on the all time games managed list and only winning a single World Series. Bruce Bochy managed 1500 more games and won two more Series, although he is under .500 overall.
  11. It's no slight to say he wasn't quite as good as a list of inner-circle HOFers. He had 10 5+ win seasons. Five wins is "in the MVP conversation". 10 seasons like that is 23rd of all time, ahead of Griffey, Brett, DiMaggio, Foxx, and for a couple years Trout. And about 19,600 other major leaguers.
  12. Yes. Two of my favorite games were sitting in the yellow Memorial Stadium mezzanine seats: my first game at the height of the '79 pennant race, and a few days before high school graduation when the O's beat Nolan Ryan.
  13. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Max Bishop. He was the regular shortstop on the IL Orioles from 1918-1923, after which he immediately became the Philadelphia A's second baseman. In a 12-year MLB career he was worth 37 wins. The IL Orioles were an indepenent team that kept its stars for years. Bishop was pretty clearly a MLB-quality player in his time in Baltimore. Even if he was just a two- or three-win player in MLB terms, he would have been worth maybe 15 wins as an Oriole. Which would put him neck-and-neck with Schoop for the 4th-highest career value in city history.
  14. When you dip down this far into a niche some of the differentiation is going to come from definitions. Dauer and Alomar were within a few wins of one another in career value as an Oriole, but could hardly have been much more different. Dauer never had a 3-win season, while Alomar's worst as an Oriole was over three wins in a short season. Jonathan Schoop should be on this list. His 3rd-best (of 4.5) seasons in Baltimore was as good as Dauer's best season. Dauer gets a lot of bonus points for having great teammates. But I think Dauer was clearly better than Adair, who really only had three years as an average or average-plus player for the O's. Villar could have joined this list, but only played 147 games at second while in Baltimore. Robert Andino had more than that. Top career value by bb-ref WAR (min 100 games at 2B): Rk Player WAR/pos From To Age G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB 1 Bobby Grich 36.0 1970 1976 21-27 786 3344 2790 432 730 137 27 70 307 457 2 Brian Roberts 28.8 2001 2013 23-35 1327 5905 5214 810 1452 351 35 92 521 581 3 Davey Johnson 20.1 1965 1972 22-29 995 3929 3489 382 904 186 16 66 391 365 4 Jonathan Schoop 14.6 2013 2018 21-26 635 2506 2360 306 615 126 2 106 312 91 5 Rich Dauer 14.4 1976 1985 23-32 1140 4218 3829 448 984 193 3 43 372 297 6 Roberto Alomar 12.5 1996 1998 28-30 412 1825 1588 282 496 102 7 50 210 189 7 Jerry Hairston 7.1 1998 2004 22-28 530 2086 1825 241 477 98 12 26 160 162 8 Jerry Adair 6.6 1958 1966 21-29 736 2751 2568 257 663 118 15 43 234 140 9 Tim Hulett 6.0 1989 1994 29-34 343 1047 950 119 248 45 4 19 111 83 10 Billy Ripken 5.5 1987 1996 22-31 724 2461 2222 236 541 100 5 15 180 146 Best individual seasons (min 80 games 2B): Rk Player WAR/pos Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB 1 Bobby Grich 8.3 1973 24 BAL AL 162 700 581 82 146 29 7 12 50 107 2 Brian Roberts 7.3 2005 27 BAL AL 143 640 561 92 176 45 7 18 73 67 3 Bobby Grich 7.3 1975 26 BAL AL 150 655 524 81 136 26 4 13 57 107 4 Bobby Grich 7.3 1974 25 BAL AL 160 707 582 92 153 29 6 19 82 90 5 Jonathan Schoop 6.3 2017 25 BAL AL 160 675 622 92 182 35 0 32 105 35 6 Bobby Grich 6.1 1976 27 BAL AL 144 615 518 93 138 31 4 13 54 86 7 Roberto Alomar 5.3 1996 28 BAL AL 153 699 588 132 193 43 4 22 94 90 8 Brian Roberts 5.2 2008 30 BAL AL 155 704 611 107 181 51 8 9 57 82 9 Davey Johnson 4.4 1971 28 BAL AL 142 574 510 67 144 26 1 18 72 51 10 Brian Roberts 4.2 2007 29 BAL AL 156 716 621 103 180 42 5 12 57 89 Oldtimer edition (NL-AA Orioles): Rk Player WAR/pos Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB 1 Gene DeMontreville 5.0 1898 25 BLN NL 151 641 567 93 186 19 2 0 86 52 2 Heinie Reitz 3.4 1897 30 BLN NL 128 544 477 76 138 15 6 2 84 50 3 Heinie Reitz 2.7 1894 27 BLN NL 108 502 446 86 135 22 31 2 105 42 4 Heinie Reitz 2.1 1893 26 BLN NL 130 562 490 90 140 17 13 1 76 65 5 Bill Greenwood 1.7 1887 30 BAL AA 118 550 495 114 130 16 6 0 65 54 6 Heinie Reitz 1.3 1896 29 BLN NL 120 527 464 76 133 15 6 4 106 49 7 Jack Farrell 1.3 1888 30 BAL AA 103 426 398 72 81 19 5 4 36 26 8 Kid Gleason 1.0 1895 28 BLN NL 112 465 421 90 130 14 12 0 74 33 9 Sam Wise 0.9 1891 33 BAL AA 103 459 388 70 96 14 5 1 48 62 10 Tim Manning 0.9 1884 30 BAL AA 91 374 341 49 70 14 5 2 0 26 Also... Jimmy Williams was the second baseman for the 1901-02 AL O's. Over six wins in two years, with 21 triples each season. Williams was someone who might be a HOFer if he was born 20 years later. He had three seasons in the top 10 in slugging early in his career, then the real depths of the deadball era came. I think he'd have been a 20-homer guy in the 1920s, but from '03-on he had a 103 OPS+ but just a .656 overall OPS.
  15. Didn't Brent Musberger try to transform himself from straight-laced announcer to catch phrase guy at about the age of 65 or 70? That went poorly.
  16. I just came up with the greatest idea ever: Have Tom Davis roam around the empty stadium, giving the out-of-town scores and pretending to steal the non-existent people's food like it's a bizarro version of HTS in 1989.
  17. If it's the Yanks or Sox I think the only correct options are to have them use minor league players or forfeit. Anyone else they just postpone the games.
  18. I get that this seems really strange, because it is. But the reasoning is that getting paid something is better than not getting paid at all. Some revenues from TV are better than no revenues at all. The complications are many, including what happens when a team has multiple players who get the virus and need to be quarantined? That seems pretty likely. We hear all kinds of stories of pro athletes being bankrupt within a short amount of time after being out of the league. You know that there are MLB players who essentially live paycheck to paycheck, counting on their salary to pay for their $2M house and the house they bought for their mom and house they bought for their best buddy, and the $2500 a month for their Aston Martin, and the attendant for their pet tiger. That's the kind of guy who wants to play in front of no fans in Arizona.
  19. He signed in 1953. The Orioles were a Phillies farm team, and the Browns were in St. Louis with an operating budget of approximately 35 cents.
  20. But is that true? Or is it completely true? Do 20-year-old players who, for example, tear an ACL and miss a season come back at the same level they were a year before? Does physical maturity and working out and studying film not play some role in development? It can't be all game action. We could look at WWII. Lots of guys early in their development took a year or three off, then came back to play in the majors. Carl Furillo. Was a prospect, got to the high minors where he hit .280 at the age of 20. Missed three years due to the war. Came back at 24, in 1946, and was a starter for the Dodgers for the next 15 years. Guys like Al Dark and Dale Mitchell didn't start their pro careers until 24 because of the war. Then were almost immediately MLB starters. Hoot Evers played one MLB game in '41, hit .322 in the Texas League in '42, missed three years for the war, then was immediately a starter for the Tigers and others for 12 years. Warren Spahn went 17-12 in the Eastern League in '42, missed three years, came back and had a 2.94 ERA in the majors in '46. Ted Williams and Stan Musial lost years to the war, but aside from the blanks you couldn't tell. They were great before and after. Then there's guys like Charlie Fox or Clyde Vollmer who were prospects before the war and kind of had their careers derailed. I don't know. But I don't necessarily think a year off is a huge deal.
  21. When I was a teenager the standard issue TV/radio announcer was a kind of straight-laced middle-aged guy who soberly described the action. Some a little more character or personality, one or two were Chuck Thompson, but that was the model. So when you first heard John Madden or Chris Berman or Dick Vitale it was pretty cool. These guys got into it! They were different and interesting and came up with nicknames and catch phrases. Now that I'm 48 I think all of them are more annoying than anything else. Will you please... just... stop... yelling. It's the bottom of the 4th, it's May, it's a grounder to short, that's okay, it really doesn't have to be the best thing ever.
  22. That was because of the bonus baby rule. Today an 18-year-old would automatically go to Aberdeen or maybe Delmarva if really highly regarded. Back then there was a rule that if you signed for more than $X you had to spend a whole year or two in the majors, kind of like the Rule 5 now. So Kaline got 30 PAs in his age-18 season. But he turned out okay. All time best players born in Maryland but never Orioles: Foxx, Kaline, Home Run Baker, Cupid Childs*, Charlie Keller, Bill Nicholson, Brian Jordan, Buck Herzog, Dave Foutz^, Billy Werber, Babe Phelps. Pitchers include Lefty Grove (not really, he won over 100 games for the IL O's), HOFer Vic Willis, and Eddie Rommel. Bobby Mathews never played for the Orioles, but he did play for the NA Baltimore Canaries in '72 when he went 25-18 and led the league in Ks and BBs. * Childs is a near-HOFer, and he did play six games for the Eastern League Orioles near the tail end of his career. ^ I bet none of you has heard of Foutz, despite his 1887 season where he hit .357, and went 25-12 on the mound. Won 41 games for St. Louis in '86. Note that I left off Mark Teixeira, because Mark Teixeira sucks. Nothing against Nick, but Kaline's career is kind of what we wanted Nick Markakis to be. 7-win peak early on, then above-average to near-MVP level for the better part of 20 years. Big difference was Nick came up at 22, Kaline at 18. Kaline was a bit odd in that his best year was at 20. Had some other really good seasons, but never quite up to his batting title and .967 OPS year early on.
  23. I don't know why this never occurred to me before now, but the experience with the minors in the late 40s and early 50s might be a lesson that helps inform us about the plans to contract some teams in the minors. As I mentioned in the previous post, in a 10-year period we went from 62 professional leagues to 27. Literally ~7000 minor league playing jobs and something like 300 managerial jobs, and some larger number of coaching jobs disappeared. Not to mention the beer vendors and ticket takers and the like. The Illinos-Indiana-Iowa (Three-I) League had been in business since 1901, closed up shop after 1961. Places like Davenport and Terra Haute had teams for generations. The Evangeline League in Louisiana was similar. Several leagues out in West Texas and New Mexico. They all disappeared. Joe Bauman hit 72 homers in a season for Roswell in the Longhorn League in '54. By '56 there was no Longhorn League. Most of these places lost their team, and never got one back.
  24. This would be the only MLB season ever cancelled since the start of professional sports leagues. In the 1800s sometimes teams now classified as major league gave up and quit at some point in the season. For who knows what reason the powers-that-be keep pretending that the 1884 UA St. Paul team was major league even though they quit after eight games in a league that had one halfway decent team. And there were minor leagues that closed up shop part way through the year in the 20th century. I'm pretty sure there were indy leagues in the 1990s or even early 2000s that failed in mid-season. There had to have been minor leagues that didn't play because of WWII. And there were almost certainly minor leagues in the 1950s that went bankrupt just as the season was about to start. In 1948 there were 62 professional leagues in the US. By 1958 that was down to 27.
  25. There are people who will tell you that Bob Feller would have won well over 300 games if not for the three years he lost to WWII. Bob Feller was one of those people. My take is that after throwing 663 innings in the two years preceding war, the three years he took off were probably the thing that allowed his arm to stay attached to the rest of his body and pitch into the 1950s. If this season is completely or mostly wiped out it'll be an interesting long-term study to see if there are any changing career trends that come out of it.
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