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Greg Pappas

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Posts posted by Greg Pappas

  1. https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2021-mlb-draft/summary?sort=-1,1&type=0&pageitems=10000000000000&pagenum=0&team=


    1        Jack Leiter          RHP    21.1    6' 1"    195    R    R    Vanderbilt
    2        Kumar Rocker    RHP    21.5     6' 5"    250    R    R    Vanderbilt
    3        Luke Leto            SS      18.3      6' 2"    190    L    R    Portage HS MI
    4        Braylon Bishop   CF      18.1     6' 1"    180    L    L    Texarkana HS AR
    5        Brady House      3B/P   18        6' 3"    200    R    R    Winder HS GA
    6        Robby Martin     RF        21.8    6' 3"    200    L    R    Florida State
    7        Jaden Hill           RHP    21.5     6' 4"    215    R    R    LSU
    8        Alex Binelas       3B       21        6' 3"    210    L    R    Louisville
    9        Matt McLain      2B      21.8      5' 10"  175    R    R    UCLA
    10      Jud Fabian        CF      20.7       6' 1"    180    R    L    Florida


    • Upvote 2

  2. 1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

    Maybe this thread would have been more productive if it went more like this:

    Kjerstad is #99 on the BA list.

    Yep, Martin is higher, wish they'd taken him instead.

    Well, the strategy was to take the cheaper player so the overall draft class might be stronger.

    Sure, but I'm not convinced it'll work out.

    Yea, nobody really is.

    Wanna get a beer? 


    One of the best posts I've seen in awhile, and I don't drink beer (or alcohol at all). :D☝️

    • Upvote 1

  3. 6 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

    I certainly think it's a valid exercise and helps self-reflect on reactions/discussion of the draft. Appreciate your commentary here and don't want this to come across as a criticism.

    I would say regardless of what Martin signs for at this point, barring a shocker, isn't super important. If the Jays sign him for the ~7.4M you have remaining, I doubt he would have accepted that at the #2 slot as it would be ~$400K higher (everything we've heard suggests he wouldn't accept an "underslot" deal). I think this analysis does a good job of demonstrating the potential merit of the "underslot" strategy, as it looks like you wouldn't have had the dollars to sign your hypothetical draft class.

    Again, I think it's great that you put a stake in the ground on which to judge your comments and don't want this to come across as a criticism in any way (rather its a discussion of the results for the exercise/experiment). 

    Agreed. I realize that different slots mean different amounts. It's all good... I hope we look back and marvel at how well Elias did. 

    • Like 1

  4. Now that five of the six prospects I targeted in this exercise have signed, there remains $7,433,900 to "sign" Austin Martin.  Whether Martin signs for that amount or less, the exercise was created to show what sort of talent we may have been able to draft if we went with A. Martin. I know that I would not have actually taken the exact same six players I pretend drafted, as I am certain to want to have targeted a couple of HS talents at some point. Guys I would have still targeted include A. Martin, McMahon and Bedell. Regardless, what these guys signed for would be for different amounts I'm sure because of different slots. I know this though, I hope Kjerstad and the rest of the 2020 draftees turn out great and they (and Elias/staff) have my full support. :)

    The O's Draft Bonus Pool was $13,821,300.

    • Austin Martin went 5th (Blue Jays), though I would have taken him at #2 in my exercise.  The #2 slot bonus is $7,789,900.  (Signed for $7,000,825) 
    • Chris McMahon went 46th (Rockies), though I would have taken him at #30 in my exercise. The #30 slot bonus is $2,365,500.  (Signed for $1,637,400)
    • CJ Van Eyk went 42nd (Blue Jays), though I would have taken him at #39 in my exercise. The #39 slot bonus is $1,906,800.  (Signed for $1,800,000)
    • Casey Martin went 87th (Phillies), though I would have taken him at #74 in my exercise. The #74 slot bonus is $844,200.  (Signed for $1,300,000)
    • Ian Bedell went 122nd (Cardinals), though I would have taken him at #103 in my exercise. The #103 slot bonus is $565,600. (Signed for $800,000)
    • Bryce Elder went 156th (Braves), though I would have taken him at #130 in my exercise. The #130 slot bonus is $422,300.  (Signed for $850,000)

    EDIT: Updated Austin Martin's signing bonus

    • Upvote 1

  5. My thoughts on this were explained in the Amateur Draft forum, but I'll say this here: It doesn't matter what I, you, or anyone else would have done differently... what matters is that Kjerstad and the other draftees ARE Orioles prospects and we need to focus on rooting for them moving forward. Assessing their talents at this juncture is not really easy with their seasons cut woefully short. Yet, we can hope that 1) our staff gets the best these young men have to offer and 2) a couple of them turn out to be quality contributors for us down the road. 

    • Upvote 3

  6. On 6/26/2020 at 10:55 AM, Sports Guy said:

    It’s pretty easy to justify it.  There really is very little that separates #40 and #100.

    Fabgraphs had him ranked higher than most..I bet you they have him way higher in their top 100...other sites may as well.

    These guys are all viewed differently in the eyes of different people.

    Dude, been awhile. Glad to see you back here.

    • Upvote 1
    • Like 1

  7. 18 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

    In 1989 the all time Oriole record for strikeouts in a season was 125 by Boog in 1966.  Four Orioles had more than that last year.  I expect Kjerstad to strike out 150 times a season.

    This is not an easy thing to guess, BUT what kind of slash line would you think is the median expectation for Kjerstad in his first few seasons?

    This question goes for anyone here, not just you DH. :)

    For those unfamiliar with what I mean by a slash line, it's Batting Average/On Base %/Slugging %/OPS(OBP+SLG).
    An example for Kjerstad may be .275/.320/.500/.820

    Another example: .285/.335/.530/.865 :)

  8. On 6/12/2020 at 5:46 PM, Greg Pappas said:

    It still wouldn't accurately reflect where I would have taken them, though I understand where you're coming from. I'd be surprised if they exceeded 13.7. Time will tell.

    Austin Martin went 5th.
    McMahon went 46th.
    Van Eyk went 42nd.
    Casey Martin went 87th
    Bedell went 122nd
    Elder went 156th

    I want to update this as prospects sign. I have some memory issues, but I'll try to keep up on this.
    The actual amount for the O's Draft Bonus Pool was $13,821,300.

    • Austin Martin went 5th (Blue Jays), though I would have taken him at #2 in my exercise.  The #2 slot bonus is $7,789,900.  (Signed for $7,000,825)
    • Chris McMahon went 46th (Rockies), though I would have taken him at #30 in my exercise. The #30 slot bonus is $2,365,500.  (Signed for $1,637,400)
    • CJ Van Eyk went 42nd (Blue Jays), though I would have taken him at #39 in my exercise. The #39 slot bonus is $1,906,800.  (Signed for $1,800,000)
    • Casey Martin went 87th (Phillies), though I would have taken him at #74 in my exercise. The #74 slot bonus is $844,200.  (Signed for $1,300,000)
    • Ian Bedell went 122nd (Cardinals), though I would have taken him at #103 in my exercise. The #103 slot bonus is $565,600. (Signed for $800,000)
    • Bryce Elder went 156th (Braves), though I would have taken him at #130 in my exercise. The #130 slot bonus is $422,300.  (Signed for $850,000) 

  9. 18 hours ago, Frobby said:

    Seems like a technical glitch.    When you click on it to see who downvoted it, it doesn’t tell you, but I don’t think you can downvote someone anonymously.    If the downvote is real, maybe it was directed at the paywall, not you personally.     

    I saw who it was, but it's been removed. No worries. Thanks Frobby. :)

  10. It's odd to get down-voted for sharing this thread regarding BA's International Review.  A mistake?  Maybe I'm missing something? I thought maybe because it was pay-walled, but I made sure to note that in the title and OP.  No big deal, certainly, but it has me curious. :)

    Anyway, I'm wondering how these International prospects, in places such as Venesuela, the Dominican Republic, and Puerto Rico have been impacted by the Coronavirus outbreak. Has training/games slowed to a crawl like in many other places? 

  11. 5 hours ago, hoosiers said:

    I too was extremely disappointed to see both Bitsko and Walker gone by 30.  Not sure I saw any mock with that scenario.  I think our draft room was probably when the BoSox popped the HS 2B in the first round.  At the time, it seemed pretty obvious that Crowe-Armstrong, Mitchell, Sabata, Wells and Soderstrom would be taken before 30,  and I believe there is a good chance we would have taken one from Walker, Bitsko, Miller, Shuster, Jarvis and Cavalli.  I think our draft room probably felt comfortable with our possible choices at 30, esp with speculation that the LAD would taken a position player in multiple mocks I saw.

    As with most here, I probably would have taken Martin and then chosen from among Bleeter, McMahon, Van Eyk and Fulton at 30/39 and then taken Petey Halpin at 74.    Not sure what other $ would have been available after that or if I would have had to take senior signs in the fourth and fifth rounds.

    Greg, you contribution to the OH for the 2020 draft has been outstanding - probably the best among posters.  Well done!

    I JUST saw this, so thank you, kindly. 

  12. 4 minutes ago, Explosivo said:

    Those are quotes from others and from those who are selling the kid to scouts and to prognosticators. I'd say they are a bit biased dont you think? What are they going to say and why at that point would the say anything negative at all? My point is find one interview where Martin has said that teammates and comradeship matter and are an important part of his game. You can't. Meanwhile Kjerstad goes out of his way to say that's one of the parts about his game and his personality. I'm damn thrilled with Kjerstad and I do believe you will be too. I think he fits the culture perfectly and will be great in the clubhouse. Guys like Mancini and Means and Adley and Grayson are the type of guys I think Elias is building a culture around. I think Kjerstad will fit in perfectly with that group and they will all be better because of it. Martin had some red flags outside of his personality anyway. He had no real position at Vandy. He couldnt lock down a single one in college. His arm is weak so centerfielder would be a defensive liability, he couldnt lock down third or short in college so he'd be a liability there and he didn't display much power. He is fast but not that fast. Hes more instinctual and he runs the bases well. These are all coachable but the things he lacks you cant coach. 


    Time will tell but I am thrilled with Kjerstad and the fact that we got a deal on a better player to get two more is the smart strategy for a shortened draft. Elias hit a homerun 3-5 years from now I think you will feel the same way.

    I also think he really wanted Bitsko and the fact he was taken two picks earlier kinda threw a wrench in our plans but we ended up better up the middle and with more power potential bats but that's the uncertainty you get with drafting against top teams in the majors. Bitsko was one of those cant miss guys and others thought so as well.

    Smh... I didn't realize that everyone who has said he is a great teammate are exaggerating the truth. A bunch of phonies and liars obviously. AND Martin never conducted an interview that discussed that particular topic. Wow. Gotcha. You even question his talents... despite all evidence to the contrary. Your words and agenda are revealing.  I'm done with this. 

  13. 25 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

    I am glad you shared your thoughts. It creates discussion here. I mean no disrespect to you at all. And I don’t disagree with you completely. I just wanted to share my thoughts as well and point out that these rankings are flawed in most years. And this year, much more so. I am just asking you to put the rankings aside for a minute and look at the latest video. 

    When I watched the 2020 video on these guys, especially Kjerstad, I was impressed. Kjerstad is much faster than a 40 runner, for instance. He may be just a tick above average. I’ll throw a 55 on him. He even bunted for base hits and stretched singles into doubles. He obviously has worked hard and he is much leaner. His swing is more controlled and the ball is flying off the bat. His swing and miss was cut down significantly. I honestly, aside from track record, do not see much difference between Torkelson and the current version of Kjerstad in the way of hit or power tools. My non-professional eyes tell me that. I know many here will mock me for this, but I truly believe that. Look at the video in the Kjerstad thread. He definitely is much improved over last year. 

    You didn't disrespect me... it's all good, my friend. :)  I watch videos like others do, but do not have a great feel for what I'm seeing, at least compared to some. I know that Kjerstad played a small sample size this season (67 AB's) like everyone else, and mostly against inferior competition (like most others), that upped the view of some scouts, and perhaps the O's as well.  Maybe they saw what you did.  I don't know. I have said I believe Kjerstad will be an above average to very good pro player (and may even make an all-star team a time or two), I was adamantly in favor of who I believed was the superior player. Yet, if Kjerstad indeed becomes among the top players from this draft at the big league level, then it will have been a good pick, even if Martin outperforms him... just not necessarily the right pick.  I just think Elias will have to hit on one or both of the two HS kids to close the gap I suspect we'll see.

    I will always compare Martin's career to Kjerstad, and as I've repeated, I hope that Kjerstad kills it for us and that Elias proves to have made great picks for us, no matter what Martin does.

    • Upvote 1

  14. 2 hours ago, Frobby said:

    Very thoughtful OP, Greg.    It will the interesting to see how much $ the players you would have selected receive, to see if we could have squeezed them all in.   And, it will be fun to look back on this thread in 5-10 years and see how your scenario would have played out, compared to the players we chose.    

    Thanks Frobby. I hope the 'highest level of pro' Elias crushes me like the amateur draftnik I am!! :D 

    To be clear about the OP... it was not an easy exercise, but I felt that by forcing rules upon myself it made for a more fair way to see what may have been if had we took the path most felt we were going to; by taking Martin and then onward from there.  Guys like McMahon at 30 and Van Eyk at 39 may be far removed from where the O's ranked them and Elias likely would have taken completely different players. I suspect Westburg would still have gone at 30. Anyway, it was cool to do. :)

  15. 10 hours ago, Explosivo said:

    I think what gets lost here is the type of teammate a player is as well as the type of talent a player shows. We only see the latter but we must never discount the former. Austin Martin while good on paper may very well be a tough guy to peg for this reason. Everything I have seen from Kjerstad is a guy who has taken every opportunity to not only make himself better by facing varied competition but also has a great desire to be a great teammate in the clubhouse. That type of difference is impossible to illustrate in video clips. His desire to wear that "more than just an athlete" shirt for draft day just rubbed me the wrong way. While I think he will be successful, I think it's important to note some interesting red flags that may arise in the future with a fella like that. In every interview when asked about what Kjerstad brings to the table he makes sure to note his desire to be a good teammate. I know it's probably not going to resonate with you guys but I think back to the poster who saw Bryce Harper play. Here is a guy who everyone saw was an incredible talent but the things we dont see which later arose with Harper were his impossibility to be a good teammate. He stated that Harper will never win a WS and I agree. We saw that with him fighting in the clubhouse and that's only the public display we saw at a game. Elias is building something special in Baltimore by bringing in quality players who will also work well with each other. Adley also indicated exactly the same type of characteristics as well as Rodriguez. These are high quality players from exceptional families who are mature beyond their years. They will approach the game in a different way. We are years away from proving any of this will bear out but I am ecstatic at Kjerstad being the guy who will make you guys proud. I firmly believe the Orioles will contend for a WS within five years. John Means is another guy who exemplifies these qualities. These are the players that Elias is targeting and I think it's the Oriole way just as it was of our past greatness in the 60s. You can not coach personality. You either have it or you do not. I think after talking with the players the way the scouts have, you can see that very clearly. I'm not at the point to say that Martin will be a cancer in the clubhouse. I dont think that's fair to levy on a kid, but I could see glimpses of something that did not sit right. Time will tell but when you look at the type of power hitter to succeed at Camden, it's difficult to look at Kjerstad not projecting perfectly in Baltimore. I think we will all be pleasantly surprised with this kid and I think Elias chose very wisely with this kid.

    Wow... "...a fella like that."  Interesting. So, as you say, "Everything I have seen from Kjerstad is a guy who has taken every opportunity to not only make himself better by facing varied competition but also has a great desire to be a great teammate in the clubhouse." Yet, nothing you have seen points to the exact same from Martin? 


    Vanderbilt head coach Tim Corbin on Martin: “Austin is as competitive as any player that we have had at Vanderbilt. He loves and survives in the arena of competition and does not back down. He could virtually play any position on the field and play it well – he is very instinctual and keeps the game simple. He loves the team environment and communicates very well with his teammates. I am most proud of his growth away from the field, he has really developed academically and as a leader in this program.”

    That was simple enough to find. 

    Here's more from SI.com, 


    NASHVILLE, Tenn. – Austin Martin knows this week will indeed be a dream of his come true. He only wishes more of his friends and teammates could be alongside him for a once-in-a-lifetime moment.

    “It’s unfortunate, again, that I couldn’t be here with my team and I couldn’t experience this moment and share it with them,” Martin recently told WKRN, “but I look forward to it and being with my family.”

    Martin, Vanderbilt’s former star utility player, is expected to be selected among the first picks of the 2020 MLB Draft which begins at 6 p.m. Wednesday on ESPN and the MLB Network and continues at 4 p.m. Thursday. A 6-foot, 170-pound junior, Martin’s abilities at the plate and in the field have made him a prime prospect for the future plans of Major League Baseball clubs.

    His competitive drive sets him apart from most of the others in his draft class.

    “I think when you go watch a player of (Martin’s) skill level – I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out what he’s good at – so that is why you like him. To me, the other end of that equation is how he became that way,” MLB Network analyst Dan O’Dowd said. “You really dig into his past and how he became the player that he is – that tells you what kind of player you’re going to get and how that player’s talent is going to affect other players around him more than just his own ability to compete.”

    Hmmmm.... again, interesting.

    Everything I've read and listened to from every major analyst, coach, or teammate paint Martin as a leader that pushes his teammates to be their best.  He wants to win badly and has worked very hard to get where he is, while trying to get his teammates or "family" as he calls them, to rise with him.  He has played against the best competition at all levels. Talent aside, he is everything you say Kjerstad is, yet you see Kjerstad an an upstanding fella and Martin as, well, a fella like that... a red flag, because...? Oh yeah, Martin wore a tee shirt supporting a just cause that every GM in baseball supported during the draft. Or is it because you believe Kjerstad comes from, "exceptional families," and will make us proud, but Martin does not and will not? 

    I replied because you clearly painted one player one way, and another in a different way, by using many comparable terms and phrases. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll assume you haven't read enough about Martin and his qualities.

    • Like 2

  16. 11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

    Now we just need to unseal this article so we know what they’re talking about!

    Sorry, wasn't paying attention to the pay-walled section. I edited the OP to reflect that. :)

    • Thanks 1

  17. Pay-walled... here is the beginning part: 


    A New York judge ruled on Friday that a letter sent by Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred to the Yankees addressing the findings of a 2017 investigation into the team should be unsealed.

    MLB and the Yankees may submit a minimally redacted version of the letter “to protect the identity of the individuals mentioned” by noon ET on Monday, as part of the proceedings in a lawsuit brought against the league by daily fantasy sports contestants in the wake of the sign-stealing scandals in Houston and Boston. The Yankees argue the letter would cause “significant reputational injury,” Judge Jed Rakoff said in his order, and the letter is not to be unsealed until June 19, so the team has enough time to make an emergency appeal. People with knowledge of the case said it is likely the Yankees will do so.


  18. 11 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

    The “rankings” that all of us refer to are made by people who are not scouts, aside from Keith Law. Jim Callis, Jon Mayo, the Baseball America crew, etc...they are journalists. They hang out at prep tournaments and showcases and glean information from scouts. They text people and correspond in other ways to gather information given to them by those who form educated opinions. They do a great job disseminating information to the readers and listeners. But opinions vary.

    Mike Elias, Sig Mejdal, Brad Ciolek and the rest of the professional scouting staff put a lot of work in this Spring behind the scenes. So did every other team’s staff. Probably not as much info sharing. Maybe even more misinformation than in past years. This was a year where info was particularly proprietary. 

    I was surprised at some of the picks, sure. But I am not upset at all. I trust Mike Elias to do right by the Baltimore Orioles. The first four picks were not “sexy,” but Mayo and Baumler seem like they were solid over slot guys. I like their profiles. Guys that we likely would have seen rise if they had played their senior years. They were taken in rounds where the Orioles felt good about the risk after getting their guys earlier who would not have been there in rounds 4-5. 

    In fact, all of their college picks were having good or great starts to 2020 as well. The spin has been that they were all about to blow up. We’ll never know about that. Did they all make meaningful development strides in the off season? Should we discount the numbers due to small samples? IDK.

    Like every year, we’ll remember to judge this draft in 4-5 years. I feel strongly that Heston Kjerstad was not the 10th best player as I keep reading here. I have him around 4-5. The signability goes into the value, sure. I wanted Austin Martin, or Asa Lacy, but Kjerstad and Veen were next for me. And if Martin, and his agent Boras, wanted 8.4 million, I would pass too in the Orioles situation. Maybe they did not believe in him as an infielder, and not a top shelf CF. Maybe Martin did not want to come to Baltimore, who knows. I think it is certainly possible that when all is said and done, we will get as much production from Kjerstad as we would have from Martin. They just go about it in different ways. 

    I welcome the new Orioles to the fold. I look forward to seeing how this draft works out and seeing our boys back on the field. I need them back on the field. 

    Good post. Speaking of Keith Law...


    Keith Law on the Orioles Draft:

    Outfielder Heston Kjerstad (1) is a big power bat with some tools, but he’s also a right fielder and has had issues with swinging and missing, enough that I think this pick was a reach at No. 2 with Austin Martin still on the board (among others). If that pick was to save money, rather than a straight preference for Kjerstad, they didn’t take advantage of it at pick No. 30, the first selection of the Competitive Balance A round, where they took Mississippi State shortstop Jordan Westburg, a very good athlete who also strikes out too much and has to work on pitch recognition as well as reducing his leak at the plate. The Orioles took Hudson Haskin (2), an age-eligible sophomore from Tulane who has a very unorthodox swing but raked in 2018 as a freshman, ranking among the leaders in the AAC in OBP and slugging. He’s got a chance to stay in center field thanks to his plus speed, which gives him an above-average regular ceiling. Ole Miss shortstop Anthony Servideo (3) was atrocious on Cape Cod last summer and has a huge swing that has led to a lot of strikeouts even with composite bats. He’s a plus runner but doesn’t have another above-average tool. He did get off to a hot start this spring in nonconference play, beating up on pitching from Xavier, Louisiana-Monroe and Alcorn State.

    Coby Mayo (4) is a very tall high school third baseman whose footwork probably pushes him to an outfield corner or first base; he has the swing for power but gets way over his front side and looks like he’ll be vulnerable to offspeed stuff. Carter Baumler (5) was supposed to be a tough sign due to his commitment to TCU; he’s a projectable right-hander with a good body and solid-average velocity with some feel to spin the curveball, but nothing is above-average yet. It feels like the Orioles tried to shave money at the top, but then didn’t target the right players with the savings.

    Elias is a bright GM with a quality staff and as you said, time will tell how this draft plays out. Hopefully you and others can understand how I would be disappointed that we didn't take Keith Law's (and other's) #1 rated player (Austin Martin) and one lauded as among the best hitters and competitors in the draft in a long time. That idea had me excited.  That's why I'm disappointed. However, in a couple of years we may look back and see that this was a good decision and worked out very well for us.  That's what Elias gets paid to do... make important decisions. Sharing my thoughts was important to me, yet I still support Elias, as you do. 

    • Upvote 2

  19. 54 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

    I think the Kjerstad-Martin swap is vastly over-rated by those bad-mouthing the decision.  Partly because two other teams passed on Martin and mostly because Kjerstand is a very, very well regarded prospect.  He was pretty much a consensus top 10 guy.  It's not like we signed a Cadyn Grenier type to a below slot deal, we signed a guy who has made major improvements to his swing and hitting results since last year and outhit Martin and Torkelson on the USA Collegiate National Team and was out-slugging Torkelson this year before the season was shut down.

    I would have been fine with Martin and then two of Bitsko, Shuster, Miller, McMahon, Beeter, Van Eyk and Fulton. 

    I am fine with how the draft turned out, but the final result was most likely not the best case.  Elias took a shot at other possibilities - in every mock Jordan Walker made it out of the first round.  In half of them, Bitsko made it out of the first round.  We could have ended up with any number of scenarios besides the one that actually happened.  Elias took a chance that resulted in a massive influx of talent and along the way entertained possibilities of multiple other high-end, higher-ranked talents falling to the Os.

    I've read this thing about how two other teams passed on Martin, as if that validates anything. Perhaps Martin was asking for 1st pick slot, which may be may be why the Marlins and Royals passed, rather than talent. We'll never know.
    I agree that Kjerstad is well-regarded and stated so earlier in the thread, but I believe the talent gap between he and Martin is significant.  I see Austin Martin as a perennial all-star and Kjerstad as an above average regular with the upside to be even better and make an all-star team a couple of times. Of course we'd have to say that Baumler and Mayo should factor into the equation as well.  Add their careers to Kjerstad and maybe that would show just why this was a great move by Elias. 

    Who knows... Elias may have been annoyed with Martin/Boras' asking price and decided to go the underslot route. Again, we'll never know. I can only judge things based on my (very) limited understanding of these prospects and the events that unfolded.  We may find out some important things in the days, months or years to come, shedding light on this draft and why Elias did what he did.

    This thread was an opportunity for me to share my thoughts in a manner that (I felt) was done with respect. I finished the OP by saying that I hope that Elias proves out in the end.  I'd LOVE it if this draft is considered a great one years from now and then I'll happily say I was wrong (who am I anyway?) and Go O's.

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