Jump to content

Jericho

Limited Posting Member
  • Content Count

    63
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

5 Rookie

About Jericho

  • Rank
    Member
  1. What are you guys favorite older actresses? Mine are Monica Bellucci and Marisa Tomei. Here are some suggestions: Forty Good Looking Older Actresses
  2. I'd also add that the point of bringing up Justin Upton was a counterargument to the "Wieters is ready" bandwagon I see here. Now I'll go out on a limb and guess most people here are lay people. Not MLB scouts or employees of the front office. So when they make the claim that Wieters is ready, its based on either second hand stuff they've read or his minor league stats. And the point of bringing up Justin Upton was that he as good a prospect as Wieters (if not better). He also was dominating AA (his numbers were even better after the first month of AA but fell off a bit and he total 71 games at AA). And Upton was promoted and sucked rocks for two months in 2007. And in 2008 Upton's still scuffling a bit, with a .520 OPS in June, leading to some talk of sending him back to the minors. His overall 2007numbers aren't bad, but they're below average for a RF and boosted by a hot April. Grand point. Upton wasn't ready. He could have used more time in the minors. Grander point. Wieters COULD be the same. People have to concede he might not be ready and that despite a great performance so far, he MIGHT need more time. It seems some aren't even willing to entertain that possibility. Granted, I can't sit here and tell you Wieters isn't ready. Just like you all can't sit here and tell me he is ready. Truth is, neither of us know. And Albert Pujols basically skipped AA and AAA and hit like a HOFer from the get go. Granted, Pujols is a pretty extreme exception, but Wieters could be too. But it's far from guaranteed Wieters is ready. And unless there's some compelling reason to bring him up, why not have him play some more games at AA or AAA? Is there any reason not to? If Wieters was dominating AAA, then there would be no point of holding him down. But since he's not, take the time you have and give the guy some extra time. And that extra time will help the Orioles too, do to service time issues. So it's win-win. The Orioles get the benefits of an extra year of Wieters and the player isn't put on some super accelerated path to the majors. Wieters may be able to handle that path, but why risk it when there's no real reason to? He can still learn things in AA and AAA.
  3. I don't think you understand my argument at all. My main point is that there's no reason to bring up Wieters now. That should be the question. Why bring him up? I've seen no tangible reason presented to answer that question. Not by you or anyone. I do see some people here eagar to see some young guy play. But that's not a compelling reason to bring Wieters up, just to satisfy some curiousity. I agree 100% with Mackus on the service time issue. The best move is to get Wieters under control for 2015, not to bring him up for a few weeks in 2008 and 2009. My secondary point was that many top propsects suck when they first come up, particularly if they're rushed. Wieters has 20 games above A ball. That's the definition of being rushed. The likelihood is that not only will it cost the team in the long run (service time issues), but Wieters will probably hit like crap if brought up now. Not that I can predict the future and tell you what he'd do. I've admitted that many times in this thread, I can't say what Wieters will do. But neither can anyone else. I'm not arguing that it will hurt Wieters long term development. I'm not arguing that it will hurt Upton either. I admit it could happen, but I don't believe it will. That's never been the argument. Although I don't believe that promoting these guys early really helps them either. And there's no proof that it helps them. The point is you can take the time to let Wieters work on his game, either at AA or AAA. He'll still be able to improve unless he starts batting 1.000. And the Orioles will have a better idea of how ready Wieters is and use the time as a convenient excuse to delay his free agency a year. You want a model of how to promote Wieters? I like what Cincy did with Jay Bruce.
  4. You're also forgetting Upton had an OPS of .647 in 43 games last year. You can't ignore that.
  5. What was my original argument then? I will admit that if Weiters was dominanting AAA ball for the last few months, he should be up. The comes a point of absurdity with the service time manipulation. I have no problem calling up a guy who plays well at AAA. But in this case, I do have a problem calling up a guy from AA after a month. He should have more time there. And he should stop at AAA too. There's no real good reason not to. I'd even be fine with promoting him straight to AAA now. But not the majors. As to drungo's post, that's just vague speculation. He says there are tangible benefits to calling up Wieters, but identifies no specifics. He says the team may end up "wasting ten times that in other areas" and identifies no specifics. Am I to take his word on these generalizations? And any team not named the Yankees should worry about salary and whether they can resign anyone (and it takes two to tango on a resign, the team and the player wanting to resign. The O's only can control half the equation).
  6. I not only believe there is no defined period of struggling/adjustment, I proved it with examples. And I've freely admitted I have no idea what Wieters would do in the majors right now. I've already admitted he COULD hit like an all-star right now. Could is the key word. No one here knows what he WILL do. Yes he's a long-term answer. Yes I want to see him up sometime in 2009. But... The point is that there are many possible benefits to keeping him down for a few more months. Mostly its from a financial/service time issue. I see no real benefit of promoting him to the majors right now. If MLB rules were different, I'd change my mind. But given the current system, the O's strong incentive here is to keep Weiters down.
  7. Of course Markakis got better in the second half. He was rushed to the majors and overmatched in the first half. He got the hang of it eventually, but was there any point to rushing him? If he spends April and May in AAA, he probably gets adjusted quicker and starts off better once he reaches the majors. The end result is the same, the journey's just a little different. But that's the thing. It's not just 'casue. The reason for letting him play in the minors is get experience. The reason is to make sure the service time works out the best way for the team. How often do you think teams promote guys to the majors after 20 games of AA ball? Why do you think it doesn't really happen? Why do even the best players often get plenty of months in the high minors (AA and AAA). What makes this situation so different that it should buck the trend of commonly accepted wisdom?
  8. Yes there is. If Markakis bolts before the 2012 season and the O's are a good OFer short of the playoffs, that decision comes back to haunt the team. It will also cost the team around $10-$15 million over the next few years. Money that could be spent elsewhere. And by 2012, they will need to either pay Markakis or see him walk. If they do pay him, that will take more money away from the available pool and potentially cost the team other signees. These are tangible possibilities. All of which hurt the Orioles. Now I ask, what is gained by bringing these players up early? Anything? are you suggesting that these players wouldn't be just as good by spending a few more months in the minors?
  9. A .750 OPS is below average for his position. It's not good. Yeah, it's impressive given his age and all. But it's not helping the Diamondbacks win now. He could have spent most of the last year in the minors and still be producing at that clip right now. The D-Backs gained nothing by bringing him up, and now lose a year of free agency because of it.
  10. How long's this projected adjustment period supposed to be? Even if you call him up in mid-2009, he should be fine regarding any potential adjustsments by 2010. It seems to be an empty argument.
  11. He's a Boras client, right? Ask Texas and Atlanta on how easy it is to sign Texiera. Odds are Wieters bolts for the biggest money deal he can find in six years. Maybe that is in Baltimore, maybe not. But assuming he will be signed seems shaky.
  12. I was against it. And I still think it was the wrong move. If Markakis spends the first 3 months in the minors, the Orioles get another year out of him and I see no reason why he wouldn't have developed just the same. Markakis sucked his first few months too. There was no reason to force him up that early. And by rushing Markakis, what did the O's gain? That's the real question? They lost a cheap year of service from one of their best players and they gain squat.
  13. You're assuming that every player goes through a defined adjustment period, and that its something that just has to be dealt with. But that's completely false. Every player is different. Mike Piazza was a great prospect. Got 31 games at AA and 91 at AAA. He hit very well in those stops, similar to Weiters' numbers. And yet LA did not rush him to the majors. And in his first 600 at bats in the majors, he had an OPS over .900. Pizza's one example, but many guys hit right from the get go in the majors. David Wright, Albert Pujols, Nomar. They all were ready and hit from the first pitch. Justin Upton was rushed. In his first 600 at bats (which he's still accumulating), his OPS will be something like .750. He's no worse a prospect that Wright or Pujols or Nomar. But he wasn't given a lot of time in the minors, and it shows at the big league level. Same thing happened to Nick Markakis. I can't say what level Weiter is at right now. But it's not like he's automatically going to struggle whenever he gets promoted. Some guys are ready and hit from the word start. Others do not. It's not like there's a defined period of struggling that everyone has to get out of the way. Wieters could very well spend all of 2008 in the minors and still hit like an all-star in 2009.
  14. Why is he clearly ready? Because you said so? I mean, you're a smart guy. But you're telling me that 20 games above A ball has you absolutely convinced of this fact? You're not worried about small sample sizes? You're not worried that Justin Upton, a prospect about as good as they come and someone who tore up AA for 71 games, has been struggling in the majors for nearly a year? Truth is, no one knows what Wieters will do in the majors right now. Maybe he goes Justin Upton, maybe he goes Albert Pujols. I don't know. You don't know. But instead of rushing into that uncertainty, why not let the guy prove himself in the minors a little bit more? Of all the prospects in baseball, very, very few get promoted right to the majors after 20 games above A ball. Most are given at least some time to work on their game and prove themselves at AA or AAA. Why should the Orioles take the risk with Wieters? Is there any good reason? A team has a minor league system, they should use it. You want to send Wieters to AAA? Sounds good to me. Mine as well see where he's at. It's a logical step in his development. Going straight to the majors doesn't seem too logical, which is why is very rarely done. And I see no reason the Orioles should go to extremes in this case.
  15. Is there actually a point to rushing Wieters to the majors? He may very well be major league ready, I can't say for sure. No one can. Of course Justin Upton tore up AA too and is currently struggling in the majors. Jay Bruce ripped up AAA for a good 4 months, but is currently adjusting. Odds are that for as good as Wieters is, he'd struggle in the majors right now. And on a last place team too. He doesn't need to be in the majors to work on his game, and he can improve in the minors and hit the ground running sometime in 2009. There's nothing wrong with that strategy. The real question is why should he be in Baltimore? To appease some posters here? I'm hard pressed to find a reason why, given that he's garnered a whooping 20 games above A ball in his career. And while I doubt rushing him would hurt his long term development, I also think keeping him down for a few months doesn't hurt it either. Logically, a full year of Wieters in 2015 for a potential contender is worth more than a crappy few months for a medicore team in 2008. And maybe being rushed won't hurt his development or psyche. But instead of asking the question why not bring him up. A better question is why bring him up? There's nothing to gain this year. Without major changes, this team won't be competing next year either (The Yanks, Red Sox, and Rays are all better). Why bring him up at all? You don't risk hurting Wieters long term development by leaving him down and you benefit the team in the long run.
×
×
  • Create New...