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El Gordo

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Posts posted by El Gordo

  1. We don't hold the cards. Mike Lieberthal and Jason Larue would probably clear waivers as well.

    What if we claimed one of them? Andd on't the Yankees have some option with Posada if he plays so many games this year. That might be an incentive to claim Javy so as to block Posada's option.

  2. Well I did a search for Baker Hawkins Sun which netted 3 pages of threads. I found a thread called Baker?, but in that one there is only user speculation.

    Sometimes these things take a life of their own. I have emailed Roch Kubatko and Peter Smuck... maybe they will respond.

    I checked that thread out too, couldn't find any evidence of an actual offer. I'm glad someone else sees my point. Things that start out as speculation here seem to become fact over time and it's hard to keep things straight.

  3. Well perhaps you should use your brain and try to figure out what people are saying.

    It has already been shown to you that similar players were dealt for decent players. We didn't do it. You ask for examples of who we could get...I told you Baker...Still went over your head.

    Perhaps if you did some research, listened to people and actually read what was going on, you would understand. Until then, you will just continue to b!tch and moan about what you perceive to be whining from people when they are really talking about legit things.

    Of course, i don't expect you to actually listen to me....You seem to be the type to just cry about things.

    SG I think your skin is getting a little thin. Simple question; where did you read that the Rockies offered Baker for Hawkins. I heard it discussed here as a possible trade option but unless the offer was made and we turned it down you can't say we could have had Baker for Hawkins, just that it 's a good trade possibilty. Maybe there was a post by BB on this that I missed or somthing published that I didn't read?

  4. Gordo, the problem with the Conines and Millars isn't that they are having bad years and nobody wants them any more. The problem is this: everybody here with as much as an ounce of foresight knew that they would be useless when they were signed and didn't want them in the first place.But most of the people we sign are like that. I mean, look it up if you don't believe me.

    The front office is moving slowly forward you say? You're right about that anyway. Verrrrry slowly. I mean, they signed a fair offensive player in Hernandez (and the rose-colored eyeglass set on this board acts like it's Pujols). We trade for an averagepitcher and a centerfielder who projects to 15 HR and 59 RBI. While both are immensely better than what they replaced, they aren't going to improve the team much. That's it, Gordo, the rest they picked up was junk.

    If you consider that mediocre performance to be the shining heights of Orioles achievement, that's pretty sad.

    One kid who's 21 posted that he mite not live to ever see them win big again. That says more than anything else about the front office you are trying to defend.

    I never said anything about how fast or slowly the FO is moving, you've got me confused with somone else. And I'm not really defending the FO, I'm questioning the mindless, knee jerk, criticism of the FO the ends up sounding like whining to me.

  5. Did you miss my earlier post where I pointed out that teams got talent for guys like Lohse, Roberto Hernandez, Oliver Perez, etc...? We could have gotten something for them. Other teams got something for their trash.

    Hernandez's numbers are a lot better than Hawkins, .293 ERA. The Mets needed a reliever to replace Shanchez one of their best; they had to take Perez to get him IMO and his numbers are on par with RLo's.

  6. Gordo, Witchy Chick raised the same arguements many others have. Whiiiiiine or not, you couldn't refute them, particularly this...

    We will get another Conine-Millar $2 million/year "veteran presence" type guy in the FA market. And we will be doomed for another year of mediocrity. I'm resigned to it -- you should be too.

    If this isn;t I don't know what is. How can I refute something so groundless. I'm not sure what the assumption here is but to say that because we signed Conine and Millar last year we will only sign older players for the forseeable future is not reason, it's whining and doesn't require a response . I keep hearing a lot of complaining about these two guys but when I ask about better options for them last year I never hear specific ideas just alot of SG type generalities like "any body would be better than them". If I recall we could have signed Preston Wilson, Juan Pierre, Encarnacion, Durazo, Mike Sweeney, Travis Lee, and Juaque Jones. Jones and Encarnacion are doing pretty well but they would have required more money and a longer committment. At the time Markakis was considered at least a half a season away and they didn't want to block him. I wanted Encarnacion but I really can't fault the thinking on Conine and Millar. I also wanted to move Bedard for a big bat, like Dunn; I'm glad they knew better than me on that one. I think a bigger mistake was letting go of Marrero but like Bynes he hadn't produced much for us and was injured most of the latter part of the season. Also it is held to be an axiom here that because Angelos has been unwilling to spend in the past, re: Delgado, Burnett/Lowell?,Vlad($90 mil. instead of $78) Konerko(if we had only offered $70mil. instead of $65 he would have taken it)et al., he will never spend in the future. Well by this reasoning it is also axiomatic that Agelos is bound to spend in the future because he has in the past, re: Palmeiro, Alomar, Bell, Tejada, J. Lopez, Palmeiro again and Sosa. I think the truth is he will spend when he thinks it's worth it but unfortunately in some cases what he thinks is worthwhile spending is not, and vica versa..

  7. You mean something weird like Benson demanding to be traded (as is his right)? Yeah -- I could see that happening. Weird. No one can guarantee that Benson will be here next year. We can speculate that he would want to stay here and work with Leo, but that's all it is -- speculation. Until the time passes that he can no longer demand a trade (winter meetings, I think?), I can not and will not count on Benson being in our 2007 rotation.

    Wow. It's too bad we didn't have any relievers that we could've traded to them. ::cough cough Hawkins cough cough:: :r

    Gordo Gordo Gordo. We will not sign Craig Wilson as a FA. We don't do deals like that. #1 he will be 30 years-old, not 40 this off-season. :rolleyes: #2 -- he has an injury history -- Pete doesn't sign off on deals for injury-history guys. #3 -- he will command big bucks in the FA market -- well, big bucks in respect to Pete's wallet and pitiful $60 million payroll. Again, Pete doesn't sign off on those deals. We will get another Conine-Millar $2 million/year "veteran presence" type guy in the FA market. And we will be doomed for another year of mediocrity. I'm resigned to it -- you should be too.


    Could it be? yes, it is, it sounds like a Whiiiiiine.

  8. You ar eon this board everyday...The Baker/Hawkins thing has been mentioned a million times.

    Chacon and Rodrigo are the same...Even if we had to include a BRian Finch type guy, it would have made sense for us.

    I see if you or anyone else suggest a trade here it automatically goes to the FO and is submitted to the other teams? I didn't read anything here about straight up trade Hawkins for Baker being offered by the Rox or rejected by us. I read alot of speculation.

  9. What does trading for a reliever have to do with them adding a starter? The answer...NOTHING.

    We could have gotten Jeff Baker for Hawkins.

    We could have gotten Wilson and let him go after the year and get draft picks.

    Kyle Lohse, a guy who has been worse than Chen and Rlo this year, was traded for a good pitching prospect.

    Delas were there to be made...We didn;t do them.

    There plan was to wait as long as they could and have the teams get desperate...They then turned their attention to Miggy and showed, yet again, that they can't multi-task.

    Please cite your sources for these deals that we coulda shoulda made. When did we turn down Baker for Hawkins and who did we not want to trade to get Wilson a free agent that we might very well get this winter? The Mets took OPerez in the deal for Hernandez and therefore didn't have a need for Lopez. They had to act fast to replace Sanchez before the deadline. Were it not for the accident we probably would have moved Lopez for Chavez.

  10. We KNOW there were teams interested in these guys. These players are good for contenders, as role players...Not guys that should be starting for a team that SHOULD be rebuilding.

    Why can't people get this point? Why does it always turn into the above discussion.

    This is a simple concept.

    Not so simple as your mind. Yes, interest was at one time expressed for example in RLo by the Mets's; they in fact were in the process of making a deal for him for Endy Chavez but unfortunatly Sanchez was injured in an auto accident and they had to trade for a reliever. Except for Angelos being Satan and willing these things to occur how is that the FO's mistake. The Mariners and Yankees had an interest in Conine at one time but the Yankees traded for Wilson, can you blame them and Seattle traded for Broussard and so would have I. How did the FO screw up here? Colorado had an interest in Hawkins but for reasons I cant understand went for Affeldt instead. If we wanted Shealy maybe we should have offered Penn or Loewen. How would that have enhanced your opinion of the FO?

  11. If they had gotten it right, Conine, Rodrigo, & Co. would be gone. They are not part of our future, and teams got solid talent for lesser players than them. People complain because this franchise has become the laughing stock of baseball. And, if you don't believe that, read an article in the Sports section of papers from Houston to LA. It's not only that no deals were comitted, it's how they seemed to fall through. Yet another GM (Houston) said he will not deal with us because of how negotians were handled. I'm not complaining because Miggy was not dealt. But, the fact that the FO admittedly was so focused on this "deal" that they couldn't get anything else done is a joke. 2 GMs can multi-task? It just seems to be another example of imcompetance. Unfortunately, you have bought into the tried and true "we're almost there with what we have" message that has led us to 9 losing seasons. Who knows, maybe this crew will develop into Ainsworth, Maine, and Damian Moss. Those 3 along with Bedard, and playoffs here we come. There are no sure things, and any time you can add more depth to your minor leagues, you have to do it. And we just watched this chance go by with a thumbs up our...

    Why is it that everyone here finds these players useless and detestable and yet can't understand why other clubs don't just scarf them up? We don't want them but the FO is dysfunctional because they can't get anyone to take them.

  12. Whining? Please tell me how to constructively criticize the front office / ownership? Or are you going to insist that fighting it out with the hapless Devil Rays for 4th place is something to be content with?

    It's not whining to say that:

    #1) this is a 4th/5th place team

    #2) There are some players who have no future and could have been traded for players who MIGHT help.

    #3) The farm system is better, but not one that can be relied upon to bring enough talent to the majors fast enough to blend with the quality vets in their prime that are here. Look how long it's taking for Bedard. We have to be that patient with all propspects. Guys like Markakis and Penn probably won't be impact players until 2008. Then Tejada and Mora are on the decline. It's called zero sum gain. AKA treading water.

    This isn't whining...it's realism.

    It is when every other post says the same thing. How do you know we could have traded any one this year. Can you tell me what the offers were for RLo ,Javy Conine and Hawkins? Or does it not matter to you; we should just give thes guys away because they aren't having good years and you don't like them any more.

  13. I know most of you wanted something to happen, but it didn't, and that's because the front office was dealing with all the possible scenarios regarding Miggy. Do we have to be a bunch of toddlers with Teletubbies-length attention spans about it? The team is moving in the right direction, albeit slowly. Next spring, here are the people who could be fighting for spots in the rotation: Bedard, Benson, Cabrera, Chen, Liz, Loewen, Lopez, Penn. If they don't start, they strenghten the pen. Hoey could own a spot in the bullpen. Reimold, a disappointment with his +.800 OPS, could be a contender for a bench slot.

    Meanwhile, our staring lineup will include Roberts, Mora, Tejada, Patterson, Hernandez, Gibbons, Markakis. Throw in a couple of guys who can hit .250, and we look at least as good as the '83 Birds. Lenn Sakata, anyone?

    It all comes down to the pitching. If four or five of those eight can pitch well, then we're in the hunt. That's a far cry from this year, when we needed every one of our starters to perform at max ability to see .500.

    I do think we could use a big bat, but I don't think it's vital. The pieces are in place for us to do what the Tigers are doing this year. A big bat would help, but I don't really think it's vital. Am I missing something here?

    All the moaning about the front office ignores the fact that the front office has stockpiled a huge amount of pitching talent and has added a bunch of hitting possibles to the organization. I think some people here would rather complain than admit that the FO is finally geting it right.

    Yes, Angelos is a terrible owner, but I think the front office has figured things out.

    Not sure I agree about the need for a big bat and my prognosis would not be quite as rosey as yours, but I like you am so sick of the pre pubescent whining.

  14. Given what the ANGELS need as well, how does this proposal sound?










    The only way we get Santana is if we include Benson. The Angels pitching is thin now with both Colon and Escabar hurting. They would have to get a pitcher back to replace Santana. Pitching is what they are counting on to get to the playoffs. If Benson is included the deal has to expand for the O's. But forget Kendrick, LAA doesn't want to give him up. My bet would be Rivera and Wood as opposed to Aybar and another position prospect.

  15. Which is why Soriano won't take us much to acquire. And definitely not Santana.

    I agree, if I get you right. My suspicion is, all this hoopla is a ploy to get Bowden to lower his threshold for a Soriano trade to LAA. I dont think Tejada's going anywhere. The Angels can't give up Santana and expect to win this year.

  16. I'm ok with Ensberg and with moving Mora to the OF. Ensberg still has 2 years of arbitration left before free agency... Everett is very useless.

    I don't like this trade as it is, but I have to think with the Lee trade Huston is the more likely Tejada suiter. Why couldn't Ensberg play 1B? They have to give up some significant pitching and at least a top OF/1B prospect to get me interested. And forget Everett. Fahey's better.

  17. No doubt about it. Vlad (and D Lee) were exactly the young, complete players that you should build around. The kicker was that they were below market value in a buyers market. I don't think last season's collapse happens with them in the line-up or in the field.

    Do you know how much better their defense makes our young pitching (rhetorical question)

    After the Vlad fiasco, I knew this team was a long way from winning again. I still can't bring mnyself to watch the Angels game on EI.:002_scry:

    That was the same year they got Tejada and Javy. Do you really think they balked at extra $5 or $6mil. after all the spending they had already done? There had to be more too it than that.

  18. Inside info ? The Orioles offered 6 yrs and 78 million. The Angels hold an option for the 6th year that brings the total to 85 million. The only way that The O's contract would be more is the unlikely scenario that Vlad doesn't play the 6th season. Then there is a 3 million buyout.

    Therefore over 6 seasons 85mil > 78mil.


    My guess is they take the $3mil. buyout '09. His numbers have peeked and at 33 he wont be worth $15 mil. The problem with Vlad is, that as a free swinger, when the bat speed slows down he has nothing to fall back on. The SO will mount.

  19. Complete BS. The start of the Tigers rebuilding was being willing to suffer with the youngins even if it meant over 100 losses and are reaping the benefits now. They have those two big signings and while Ordonez is having a decent year the O's more than matched that signing with Tejada. And the O's are getting the same if not more production from their Free Agent catcher.]

    They overpaid for Tejada yes, but then stopped there, when they had a trade worked out for D Lee and fell too short on the $$$$$. Just close enough to drive you nuts. The guy was in the warehouse. Instead we got Palmeiro (and we know how great that was):rolleyes: . Do I even have to get into Vlad again? Let me guess, you're one of those guys who thought Vlad just "won't come here". :rolleyes: Instead we got Sosa, again another brilliant move. You're either afraid to lose ....or afraid to lose money.

    "Rather than wait for the market to establish itself, "This team has to overpay NOW If it wants to be a player in the FA market. If it doesn't want to overpay in the FA market, it has to draft the best players and not worry about "signability" like they did with Jared Weaver. Oh that's right, you're excuse for that one was Angelos didn't want to deviate from the slot system.

    That draft was the same draft that the Tigers drafted Verlander is the same draft that we drafted, but didn't sign the more signable Wade Townshend. So, its not BS. The Tigers were committed to winning

    Are you related to Peter G Angelos by any chance ?

    Sorry don't know why this was double posted ?

    What inside info do you have on why Vlad turned down our offer which was what $5-6 mil. more than he accepted. Would he have come for yet another $5 mil. Or did he go to LAA because he does what his mom tells him and they have a large Hispanic community there. Inquiring minds want to know What's your skinny?

  20. If he's traded, good luck getting another top free agent to sign here. Another question is: If the O's were in a playoff hunt and had a chance to acquire Tejada, what would you give from our system for him?

    There are two ways to go; trade Tejada for prospects and rebuild or keep him and build around him with some big bats and maybe a pitcher or two . The key to deciding which way to go is the state of our pitching. It hasn't panned out as we expected. The next two months are cruciaL. If Penn Loewen and Cabrera can show promise then trading Tejada is not a good idea. Better to add a couple of bats. But if they continue to struggle then all bets are off and Tejada needs to be traded. However we can't know that now. The best course of action IMHO is to wait for the off season when we will know more and get a better return on trades as well.

  21. Why would anyone trade anything for Luis Matos?????

    Though they are not similar players in their upsides for the same reason you trade for Cory Patterson. Matos could be a serviceable CF for another team. He has no chance on the O's just like Cory could do nothing more on the Cubbies.

  22. That's the 10,000 Dollar Question isn't?

    The team SHOULD look very different.

    5 Things Definitely Need to Happen:

    - Javy Lopez must be traded.

    - Jeff Conine must be traded.

    - Hayden Penn must be in the rotation.

    - Luis Matos must be traded.

    - Jay Gibbons must be moved to 1B/DH.

    5 Things Should Happen, Circumstances may make them Non-Mandatory:

    - Rodrigo Lopez should be traded if he can increase value.

    - Bruce Chen should be traded if he can increase value.

    - Adam Loewen should be in the rotation.

    - Jay Gibbons should be permanent DH.

    - Chris Gomez should be traded if he can increase value.

    5 Trades Should be Investigated:

    - Listen to offers for Tejada

    - Listen to offers for Gibbons

    - Listen to offers for Hawkins

    - Listen to offers for Millar

    - Listen to offers for Benson

    Now, let's hope the FO is proactive...

    I agree with every thing except, Gibbons is DH only if we get a decent power hitting 1B, and I 'd be very wary of trading Benson. The rotation needs some stability while the likes of Loewen Penn AND DCab figure things out.

  23. I read your post, and last off season I said the same thing.

    Hence why in my post it notes Mora as a free agent to be.

    I remember bigbird coming onto this board, and saying "They are trying to get rid of Javy, but no takers"

    Which was bombarded by "This team needs to eat salary, trade him to the Angels, trade him for Hee Seop Choi"

    No one wanted Javy last off-season.

    Look how long it took for Molina to sign, and he only got 5 milliong dollars for one year.

    I knew what you meant.

    How much better off would we be now paying the Dodgers half of Javy's salary and having Hee Sop on the the team. What kind of numbers is he putting up in Boston's farm system and how does he figure in to the grand rebuilding scheme? I hope he's not our 1B of the future.

  24. In 2004, I was getting over the death of child, working too much, then quitting my job and movng back here from Palo Alto, and not paying very much attention to baseball. So, in 2004, I wasn't thinking about it. From what I understand, he was playing with a fracture a lot, but I'm not sure about that.

    Sorry to hear about that Rshack.:002_scry:

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