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Tony-OH

Say what you want, but I like the Sosa deal

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I don't think the confines of OPACY will be as easy to hit HR's as Wrigley is.

Even with the shorter LF-LC?

Wrigley: 355 L, 368 LC, 400 C, 368 RC, 353 R

Camden 333 L, 364 LC, 410 C, 400-373 RC, 318 R

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Fontenot didn't have a great year at Ottawa. I think we're in pretty good shape at second base for a few years with Roberts. We can get Newhan some games at second now, which should also be a plus.

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That's the only thing a move like this would be about. And I for one am tired of half-measures and reactive moves just to sell seats for one season. How does this deal make us better long-term?

Shame on you, Tony, for falling for this typical Angelos fluff smoke and mirrors. :(

It buys you some time till Majewski and Markakis are ready for the bigs. It also gives Gibby a chance to play 1b and to prove whether or not he is a part of the fututre of this club.

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If the move is Sammy + $10M or so for Jerry, Fontenot, and Crouthers, then its, at worst, an ok move and at best a good move.

I'm excited as hell because I know the type of player Sosa can be, but I'm disappointed that it got to the point where we had to go after him.

If theres no commitment for 2006 and the worst case is we lost 3 guys who didn't even fit at all here, then its at wrost a neutral move. I'm gonn aroot my a** moff for Sammy, but I still am not 100% behind this move, although it could turn out to be great.

This is, essentially, a good medium risk, hihg reward move for the Birds.

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This is truly amazing to me. The team we supposedly support has traded away our 2B of the future with great upside' date=' a pitcher with upside (and possibly 2 more prospects depending on the deal) for an old, selfish outfielder who can't field and who hit .254 last year. Jerry as our CF would have been a much better situation than this. At least he gets on base and can catch the damn ball.

:mad::mad::mad:[/quote']

Our second baseman of the futre is Brian Roberts, who happens to currently be the second baseman. Spears is a good looking second base prospect as well. Fontenot s still a below average defensive second baseman who doesn't hit for power or steal enough bases to be a top flight regular. He's small, and probably never going to be more than a backup or a starter on a lower echelon team.

Crouthers has a good arm but he's erratic and probably a releiver when it's all said and done. Still, he's one of those guys you move in a deal like this without question. As for Hairston, I like him but he's fragile and he was depth behind Roberts and Matos/Bigbie.

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Are you kidding me? This does make the team better and if the rumored players involved is all we gave up then this doesn't hurt our future either way. I can't see how anyone can have a bad opinion of this move. We are better this year. We are more exciting to watch, and potentially, this deal could have a huge upside. Can you say that about anything else this offseason?

If we were not going to go after Sosa, Delgado/Sexson AND Martinez/Hudson/Clement/etc and actually contend, why go after just one? It's a half measure. What good is trading Hairston and prospects for someone that probably just makes us a .500 club?

We should either fish or cut bait with expensive former all-stars.

This is just about selling seats and not about contending. That's what's not to like...

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OK, my first reaction is "please tell me I had one too many Labatt Blues tonight." I don't like Sosa and I didn't support trading for him - BUT - I have to admit this deal is not that bad depending on how much of money the Cubbies chip in. Sosa is on a MAJOR decline, but if it is true that he waived his ridiculous option year (BTW didn't MLBPA have a huge problem with this) he could be productive. Jerry needed to go somewhere new. Fontenot and Crouthers - who cares? My concern is that since the 'juice' will be banned next year I hope that we don't see a truly startling statistical decline. The man takes 'roids. You can't convince me otherwise. However, if the guy bats .260 with 30 hrs (PECOTA projects .259 and 26) it may not be a bad deal to VORP at 25.3 next season. Now if we trade for a pitcher (Vazquez PECOTA VORP 28.7), sign a first baseman (Fullmer PECOTA VORP 22.1), and somehow have enough leftover to run at Cameron (24.4), Huff (40.0), or sign a very risky Magglio (30.5) I think we make ourselves a contender. Sosa alone does not convince me - but I like the deal thus far.

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If we were not going to go after Sosa, Delgado/Sexson AND Martinez/Hudson/Clement/etc and actually contend, why go after just one? It's a half measure. What good is trading Hairston and prospects for someone that probably just makes us a .500 club?

We should either fish or cut bait with expensive former all-stars.

This is just about selling seats and not about contending. That's what's not to like...

If nothing you are consistent. I expected this kind of reaction from you anyways. Nothing could possibly make you happy about the Orioles. It's not your fault, it's just your personality. Overly negative people have a hard time ever seeing the bright side of things. Personally, it's sad to see, but hey, life goes on and you'll continue to complain about it.

I'll say again, this deal (if the rumored one is true) makes the club better and has an upside that could make us a contender. But I guess it would have been better to have gone into the year with two second basemans on the roster and still no right-handed power.

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This O's chick is right there with you, Tony. I was on the "No to Sosa" side of things until we lost out on Delgado... and until I talked to a friend of mine, a baseball fanatic in Chicago.

To me, it's key that Julio wasn't involved in this deal (that, and the ton of money reportedly coming our way, of course). Let's hope he can be used as part of a Vazquez deal down the road.

Jerry lost his position, Fontenot's position is essentially blocked for many years by B-Rob, and Crouthers, while being a hard thrower, is also wild. Whether he ever puts it all together remains to be seen. So are we trading away people we will truly "miss?" No.

As my Chicago pal pointed out, don't forget that Sammy still has a cannon for an arm. He should fare better defensively than anything we put out there in RF last year! And, on our team at least, he's still a legit #3 or #4 hitter. Even with what went on last year, many people are saying a change of scenery will be key for Sammy, and his agent said he's "highly motivated." I would be, too.

Remember that Miggy is very good friends with Sammy. I don't forsee Miggy putting up with any crap, nor do I see Maz putting up with any garbage. Sammy won't have to be the lone "man" here - this is still Miggy's team. And yes, he will put fannies in the seats. Whether or not that was Angelos' main objective or not, like many others here have said, I think it's a low risk gamble. The reward may not be as high as it might have been in earlier years, but I think (and hope) we'll be pleased with the results! Welcome to the orange and black, Sammy!

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If nothing you are consistent. I expected this kind of reaction from you anyways. Nothing could possibly make you happy about the Orioles. It's not your fault, it's just your personality. Overly negative people have a hard time ever seeing the bright side of things. Personally, it's sad to see, but hey, life goes on and you'll continue to complain about it.

I'll say again, this deal (if the rumored one is true) makes the club better and has an upside that could make us a contender. But I guess it would have been better to have gone into the year with two second basemans on the roster and still no right-handed power.

No need to attack me personally.

This is what I would like to see and I wouldn't complain:

A PLAN!!!!!!

How is this part of any plan to make us a contender? That is what we all want right?

Seems to me we could go young and build a contender over years. If that were a stated goal they actually followed through with it with real commitment, I could support it.

Another plan could be to go with all-star free agents and trades and stack a team to compete right now.

But we continue to be on the fence. I'm only negative because I don't like the direction we're going and I think it shows how the "command emphasis", if you will, is always about short term selling tickets and there's no long-term plan. This isn't about "personalities", Tony. This is about what I think is continued failure by this team to define a strategy for fielding a winner and sticking with it.

When the season starts and I am wrong, I will promise to be the most positive person here.

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This seems like an absolute panic move which is par for the course with this team that is more interested in selling tickets than building a winner. At this point we'll have Sosa, Lopez, Palmeiro, and Ponson all leaving the team once we find out if Bedard and the like are ready to contribute, brilliant. :rolleyes: I'll reserve ultimate judgment until we figure out how much money is going to be spent on Sosa but there had to be better options. Besides the fact that Sosa exposed himself to be a self-centered jerk last year (nothing in common with Tejada) the guy is on a downward spiral to Bolivian. Maybe the Cubs will be picking up millions on this deal but I have to believe there is a handshake somewhere where Sosa resigns for a couple more years in Baltimore. This team is making it very hard for me to follow right now.

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I don't really understand all the talk about "not being in contention so why bother with all-star players." Hasn't a lot of talk on this board been our failure to sign free agents because they want to play for a team that is a contender? The only way to be a contender is to keep moving up... and we did that, last year. And all signs point to us moving up more this year- maybe not to second or first place, but maybe we'll break .500 this year, maybe we'll be in the wild card race, who knows? That's what makes baseball so much fun to watch- sometimes a team just "clicks" and all the stats in the world that "prove" them to be an inferior product mean nothing.

I understand, you don't want to give away the future of our team for one player in a year where it doesn't seem like our chances have been optimized. I don't feel that anyone can make a case that we have done that with this trade, however.

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If nothing you are consistent. I expected this kind of reaction from you anyways. Nothing could possibly make you happy about the Orioles. It's not your fault, it's just your personality. Overly negative people have a hard time ever seeing the bright side of things. Personally, it's sad to see, but hey, life goes on and you'll continue to complain about it.

I'll say again, this deal (if the rumored one is true) makes the club better and has an upside that could make us a contender. But I guess it would have been better to have gone into the year with two second basemans on the roster and still no right-handed power.

Tony, I respect your opinion but a contender? Have you looked at Sosa's decline since 2001? It is horrific. Sure this might make us a better team for this year but this does nothing but give us more age that won't be around when/if Bedard, Bigbie, Maine, and the other youngsters are ready to perform at the level that is needed to contend. Looking at the past three years I dont see how you can project anything better than 40 homers, 135 games,and an OPS of .850 from Sosa. Unless you want to play Raffy at first this is also a major downgrade in the OF and Sosa will get hurt again.

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No need to attack me personally.

This is what I would like to see and I wouldn't complain:

A PLAN!!!!!!

How is this part of any plan to make us a contender? That is what we all want right?

Seems to me we could go young and build a contender over years. If that were a stated goal they actually followed through with it with real commitment, I could support it.

Another plan could be to go with all-star free agents and trades and stack a team to compete right now.

But we continue to be on the fence. I'm only negative because I don't like the direction we're going and I think it shows how the "command emphasis", if you will, is always about short term selling tickets and there's no long-term plan. This isn't about "personalities", Tony. This is about what I think is continued failure by this team to define a strategy for fielding a winner and sticking with it.

When the season starts and I am wrong, I will promise to be the most positive person here.

BTW, I didn't attack you personally, I pointed out facts. You are a negative person on these boards. You are negative about everything. That's not an attack, it's a valid observation.

I really don't have a problem with you since you usually stay away from immature comments like "lil petey" or telling players they suck. Don't get too defensive. I don't agree with a lot of what you say but I believe you have the right to say it, and your normally do it respectfully.

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