Jump to content
Tony-OH

Say what you want, but I like the Sosa deal

Recommended Posts

Tony, I respect your opinion but a contender? Have you looked at Sosa's decline since 2001? It is horrific. Sure this might make us a better team for this year but this does nothing but give us more age that won't be around when/if Bedard, Bigbie, Maine, and the other youngsters are ready to perform at the level that is needed to contend. Looking at the past three years I dont see how you can project anything better than 40 homers, 135 games,and an OPS of .850 from Sosa. Unless you want to play Raffy at first this is also a major downgrade in the OF and Sosa will get hurt again.

I agree. My name my be tainted here for being "overly negative" -- as if that were possible facing an 8th straight losing season and an offseason more about court cases and Aruban fist fights than improvement -- but this is "smoke and mirrors". How does this fit into any long or short term plan to be a contender? It doesn't. It's cosmetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BTW, I didn't attack you personally, I pointed out facts. You are a negative person on these boards. You are negative about everything. That's not an attack, it's a valid observation.

I really don't have a problem with you since you usually stay away from immature comments like "lil petey" or telling players they suck. Don't get too defensive. I don't agree with a lot of what you say but I believe you have the right to say it, and your normally do it respectfully.

Fair enough. Sorry for being touchy. My patience with this FO is just worn out. Some people can take it longer than others I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Looking at the past three years I dont see how you can project anything better than 40 homers, 135 games,and an OPS of .850 from Sosa.

Are you telling me that won't help us? Seriously, I'd be elated with that production and I do believe with that producation and some starters stepping up, we could be contenders. Do I think it's likely, most likely not. But I do think we are in better shape than we were before the trade and we didn't morgage any of the future (as far as we know) to do it.

I was against the trade when I heard we were gving up Gibbons and Julio and we were going to have to pay him that huge salary as well as take on his huge option year. The deal that's out there right now does none of that. I can't see how this isn't a win-win situation. It's not like we made this trade over a Texiera deal or something and no one said we're done yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you telling me that won't help us? Seriously, I'd be elated with that production and I do believe with that producation and some starters stepping up, we could be contenders. Do I think it's likely, most likely not. But I do think we are in better shape than we were before the trade and we didn't morgage any of the future (as far as we know) to do it.

I was against the trade when I heard we were gving up Gibbons and Julio and we were going to have to pay him that huge salary as well as take on his huge option year. The deal that's out there right now does none of that. I can't see how this isn't a win-win situation. It's not like we made this trade over a Texiera deal or something and no one said we're done yet.

At least that's true (we hope). That would have been awful. This deal, as reported, is at least neutral in terms of the future. I still think its just cosmetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you telling me that won't help us? Seriously, I'd be elated with that production and I do believe with that producation and some starters stepping up, we could be contenders. Do I think it's likely, most likely not. But I do think we are in better shape than we were before the trade and we didn't morgage any of the future (as far as we know) to do it.

I was against the trade when I heard we were gving up Gibbons and Julio and we were going to have to pay him that huge salary as well as take on his huge option year. The deal that's out there right now does none of that. I can't see how this isn't a win-win situation. It's not like we made this trade over a Texiera deal or something and no one said we're done yet.

Will it help sure, are we contenders no. Also that is a best case scenario which I dont see Sosa coming anywhere near. I'll be shocked if he hits 30 and plays in 110 games next year. If this was to complement several other moves to compete this year I'd be ecstatic. But this move alone sucks and it isnt enough.

I'll be back tomorrow as my g/f is ready to kill me since I have been a pain in the rear since hearing this during dinner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was shocked to read this news and conflicted on how to feel, but I'm starting to think "what the hell" this is a low risk type move that could pay off. If all we're giving up is Hairston (who needed to go anyway) and B-C level prospects AND CHicago is picking up a huge bulk of his contract AND we don't have to pick up his option the next year, then there's really no downside to this move.

I was more upset then anybody about losing out on Delgado and this offseason in general but the one thing I've said from the beginning is the O's need to takes some risks and start acting like a contender if they want to be one. Trading for Sosa is a really ballsy move. Panic move? Push to one up DC? Oh hell yeah it is. But if they pulled it off for as little as being reported and we barely have to pay him then I have to commend B&F for potentially pulling off a coup.

Delgado and friends are in the past, we missed out on them there's nothing we can do. Now we needed to make an impact and we did.

Worst case scenario is he stinks and then we let him walk and that will be that. It will at least create more excitement for the team and bring more out to the Yard.

Best case scenario is he has a rejuvenated year away from the unfriendly surroundings of Chicago, their media and that curmudgeon Dusty Baker and ready to prove he's "still got it" and finds his stroke again and his love of the game with help from the infectious Miguel Tejada.

AND since we apparently didn't have to trade away any big parts, we still have the resources (Julio, etc.) to go out and work a deal for that starter (like Vazquez) that we need.

I'm still conflicted but I'm coming around. I think we should give it a chance to work out and welcome Sammy to Baltimore and hope he finds sucess late in his career...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my complaint in a nutshell and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong:

We reportedly trade Hairston and two prospects for Sosa and likely increase our payroll. Sosa doesn't make us a contender and is old and declining and could very well be a one-year rental. With the limited resources this team has in dollars and tradable players/prospects, could we have done much better in trading Hairston and two prospects? I think so. We waited two seasons to trade Hairston for a declining roid-less Sosa?

That's what I don't like about this......

Tell me I'm wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I said it 2 months ago and I'll say this again. Trading Hairston (a back up player on the O's squad) and any number of 2nd tier minor league prospects for a certain 1st ballot hall of famer who will definitely get his 600th homer in an O's uniform and has a shot at 700 is an absolutely fantastic business move by the O's. Anyone who thinks this is a panic reaction by the front office is silly.

B&F probably just increased attendance by 150 - 200 k for the season. Sosa is easily worth 2000 tickets a game even if he's just a "pedestrian" .260 hitter with 35 home runs. On the other hand if he gets healed up from the injuries that slowed him last year and plays a full season, he could hit 50 (or dare I say, 60!) taters for the Birds. If THAT happens then attendance will jump dramatically.

This is another example of the O's being very very deliberate and forcing people to either go their way or the highway. There is no way the Cubs wanted to trade Sammy for a guy named Hairston and some AA players and STILL have to eat a significant chunk of his salary. The deliberate strategy didn't work with Delgado, Pavano and the A's -- but it got them what may eventually be considered one of the most lopsided trades in baseball history (in their favor no less) since the Glenn Davis trade.

Sure there is a chance that Sosa will continue to wear down and quietly fade into retirement. But there would seem to be a much bigger chance that Tejads helps him regain his excitement for the game and Sosa enjoys a resurgance in Charm City.

Whatever else you say, we've just replaced a spot in our batting order that was filled with Luis Matos, Karim Garcia or Luis Lopez as often as not with a guy that's got 40+ HR power and true star power.

And consider this: Sosa has never played in a lineup with guys like Roberts and Mora setting the table for him and Tejada and Javy protecting him. If Roberts continues to progress and ups his OBP a bit, Sosa will have a lot of ducks on the pond ahead of him this season and a lot of fastballs to swing at.

Now what the O's need to do is really aggressively go after Ordonez. Mags hitting 3rd, Tejada 4th and Sosa 5th would truly be a sight to see. Sure the Cubbies will probably get him, but Mags might just wanna land in Baltimore with all the other latin super stars.

Great move B&F. Great business move. Great PR move and very likely a Great baseball move as well.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's my complaint in a nutshell and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong:

We reportedly trade Hairston and two prospects for Sosa and likely increase our payroll. Sosa doesn't make us a contender and is old and declining and could very well be a one-year rental. With the limited resources this team has in dollars and tradable players/prospects, could we have done much better in trading Hairston and two prospects? I think so. We waited two seasons to trade Hairston for a declining roid-less Sosa?

That's what I don't like about this......

Tell me I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's what I posted back in a thread asking if we'd be happy trading for Sosa if the Cubs picked up over half his contract, I think I still agree with my thinking:

All things considered, if the Cubs are willing to pick up over half his contract, then I really don't see why not. Even a declining Sosa is legite power threat in our lineup, plus if he's recovered from his injuries he could hit 40+ homeruns, and surrounded by the likes of Tejada, Lopez and Mora... in the order, those RBIs should shoot up.

I think it's worth a gamble. The O's don't often take gambles which is I think to their detriment. If he doesn't work our, it's just 2 (EDIT: ONE) seasons. This is not Albert Belle 5 years here. He'd be gone after 2006 (EDIT: 2005). But if it works out he could seriously make our team more of an offensive threat, not to mention help take the pressure off our young pitching staff which we've failed to upgrade.

This is not to mention the obvious main stream pub, PR and fan interest he would draw to Baltimore. He is a bonafide superstar and would move tickets, merchandise and bring media.

I don't by the crap about his attitude. You try playing for Dusty Baker. I don't think any player has good things to say about him, sounds like a real taskmaster. I remember back to the late 90s when he was one of the most fun loving ambassadors of the game, always with a smile on his face. I think playing with his countryman, the contagious Miguel Tejada will bring that back out of him.

As for the other arguments, the corked bat incident happened, let it go. He contends it was a mistake. Whether it was or wasn't he sure as hell won't be doing it again. It's not like every player we've ever signed has never done something stupid and gotten suspended before.

As for the steroids, until he comes out and admits to it, it's complete baloney to indict him for it. Past major leaguers have predicted that 40-50% of players are on the stuff so if you indict one, you have to provide the same standards for everyone (Hint: I think a popular outfielder/1st baseman who we recently signed to a contract experienced a suspicious amount of muscle loss and bad production and brittle injuries to coincide with the recent "steroid cleanup" in baseball).

What would be giving up? Hairston we need to trade because there's really no place to play him unless you want him in CF (EDIT: Called this one) and Julio we all have been itching to trade too (EDIT: We didn't have to!) and we would be aquiring Farnsworth who takes Julio's place as the righty setup and we all seem to fawn over him, so we would be getting another quality player back.

Folks, the more I think about it, the more I think this is worth it.

My main qualms would be his contract and what we would be giving up. If the Cubs pick up at least 60% of his contract and we only have to give up Hairston and Julio (EDIT: Only Hairston!) who we have no use for anyway, I say we do it.

Remember it's only 2 (EDIT: ONE) years. And you never know, he might actually surpise you and be productive...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I said it 2 months ago and I'll say this again. Trading Hairston (a back up player on the O's squad) and any number of 2nd tier minor league prospects for a certain 1st ballot hall of famer who will definitely get his 600th homer in an O's uniform and has a shot at 700 is an absolutely fantastic business move by the O's. Anyone who thinks this is a panic reaction by the front office is silly.

B&F probably just increased attendance by 150 - 200 k for the season. Sosa is easily worth 2000 tickets a game even if he's just a "pedestrian" .260 hitter with 35 home runs. On the other hand if he gets healed up from the injuries that slowed him last year and plays a full season, he could hit 50 (or dare I say, 60!) taters for the Birds. If THAT happens then attendance will jump dramatically.

This is another example of the O's being very very deliberate and forcing people to either go their way or the highway. There is no way the Cubs wanted to trade Sammy for a guy named Hairston and some AA players and STILL have to eat a significant chunk of his salary. The deliberate strategy didn't work with Delgado, Pavano and the A's -- but it got them what may eventually be considered one of the most lopsided trades in baseball history (in their favor no less) since the Glenn Davis trade.

Sure there is a chance that Sosa will continue to wear down and quietly fade into retirement. But there would seem to be a much bigger chance that Tejads helps him regain his excitement for the game and Sosa enjoys a resurgance in Charm City.

Whatever else you say, we've just replaced a spot in our batting order that was filled with Luis Matos, Karim Garcia or Luis Lopez as often as not with a guy that's got 40+ HR power and true star power.

And consider this: Sosa has never played in a lineup with guys like Roberts and Mora setting the table for him and Tejada and Javy protecting him. If Roberts continues to progress and ups his OBP a bit, Sosa will have a lot of ducks on the pond ahead of him this season and a lot of fastballs to swing at.

Now what the O's need to do is really aggressively go after Ordonez. Mags hitting 3rd, Tejada 4th and Sosa 5th would truly be a sight to see. Sure the Cubbies will probably get him, but Mags might just wanna land in Baltimore with all the other latin super stars.

Great move B&F. Great business move. Great PR move and very likely a Great baseball move as well.

I agree 100%.

On top of it all it's a low risk move from all reports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's the only thing a move like this would be about. And I for one am tired of half-measures and reactive moves just to sell seats for one season. How does this deal make us better long-term?

Shame on you, Tony, for falling for this typical Angelos fluff smoke and mirrors. :(

It certainly doesn't hurt us in the long term. It can only make us better. We traded the oft injured Jerry Hairston and two players who basically had no home with us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It certainly doesn't hurt us in the long term. It can only make us better. We traded the oft injured Jerry Hairston and two players who basically had no home with us.

You know if we're going to trade away players and prospects, I'd rather it help us long term. I really don't hate this move. I'm just not at all excited by it. I think its just cosmetics and I'm disappointed we're apparently falling for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now what the O's need to do is really aggressively go after Ordonez. Mags hitting 3rd, Tejada 4th and Sosa 5th would truly be a sight to see. Sure the Cubbies will probably get him, but Mags might just wanna land in Baltimore with all the other latin super stars.

You bring up a great point here. I don't think that Maggs will be in an O's uniform. But the power of this move to make Baltimore a more attractive destination for latin players is a possibility.

The future of this game is going to be paved by latin players. Rescuing Sosa from Chicago and allowing him to finish his career with his pride could bolster our reputation in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here's my complaint in a nutshell and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong:

We reportedly trade Hairston and two prospects for Sosa and likely increase our payroll. Sosa doesn't make us a contender and is old and declining and could very well be a one-year rental. With the limited resources this team has in dollars and tradable players/prospects, could we have done much better in trading Hairston and two prospects? I think so. We waited two seasons to trade Hairston for a declining roid-less Sosa?

That's what I don't like about this......

Tell me I'm wrong.

Your wrong . Sammy will be here for at least 2 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Who's Online   0 Members, 1 Anonymous, 88 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






×
×
  • Create New...