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Iowa wrestler cites conscience/faith in defaulting state match (rather than face girl)

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OK my apologies if the desciption was too graphic but that's pretty much what was happening.

I guess to be more specific I had her in a headlock and our bodies were perpendicular, like the letter T. Her right arm was basically across her throat as I was lifting her head and putting all my weight on her upper torso. That's textbook form and you want to squeeze as hard as you can and 'get heavy'. When your opponent has you like that, it's hard to breathe to say the least.

Actually to me that sounds just as bad as what I posted before, so I apologize in advance if it's too graphic or offensive. Believe me I didn't feel very manly for doing it and my teammates' comments made it worse. It especially doesn't sound right using the word 'her' which is why I don't think girls should be allowed to wrestle the boys at that level. But that kind of stuff happens all the time in wrestling. You are often in very uncomfortable situations. It's a brutal sport and that stuff is part of the game.

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His religion gives him a system of values. In this century, there are still several billion religious people. Personally, I don't believe in mocking another man's religion.

People can (and do) believe whatever they want. In this instance--as in so many others--"belief" is being deployed as a get out of jail free card. At that point, all bets are off and it's mocking time.

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If your parents tell you to "never hit a women" then your coach tells you to go wrestle a women...well...there is a bit of a mixed message for a young athlete.

Are there just not enough girls wrestling to have a girls only division in high school?

I think there is a definite separation between baseball and wresting (or even soccer, tennis,golf, etc). A teenage girl can play baseball without being manhandled by someone twice her size and 4 times her strength. Not so in wrestling.

The whole points of weight classes in wrestling (to my understanding) is to even the playing field and make the match more about skill then pure power. But this doesn't really work because men are faster and stronger pound for pound. That's biology and it is very rarely false. So, women wresting men needs a different method of handicapping if the same result is it be achieved.

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People can (and do) believe whatever they want. In this instance--as in so many others--"belief" is being deployed as a get out of jail free card. At that point, all bets are off and it's mocking time.

LOL...so it's okay for someone to take a stand on their own personal beliefs, but as soon as it involves religion/faith it's "time to mock"? But I'm sure if he were holding out until Tibet were free or our country put an end to off-shore drilling, it'd be okay? It's okay to take a stand as long as it's something YOU deem worthy and it's non-religious, right? The hypocrisy is DELICIOUS, Mark. Thank you. Thank you for being soooooo open-minded and respectful of the beliefs of others just like you'd expect in return. This REEKS of, "Please, be open-minded, as long as it doesn't conflict with what I believe. Thanks!"

By the way...the kid wasn't using it as a get-out-of-jail free card. He made the choice, the sacrifice, based on his personal beliefs. If you'd ever wrestled or parented a wrestler, you might better understand what a HUGE deal this is. Wrestling takes a level of commitment and conditioning that's unparalelled in other sports. Even at the Junior League level, kids ages 6 and up spend between 6-12 hours per week working out, practicing for the weekend's tournaments, dual meets, etc. For a kid to forfeit for ANY reason is unfathomable to wrestlers, coaches, and parents alike. The kid should be commended for not compromising his personal beliefs and values to avoid being mocked and ridiculed by open-minded, progressive folks like yourself.

Edited by ScottieBaseball
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LOL...so it's okay for someone to take a stand on their own personal beliefs, but as soon as it involves religion/faith it's "time to mock"? But I'm sure if he were holding out until Tibet were free or our country put an end to off-shore drilling, it'd be okay? It's okay to take a stand as long as it's something YOU deem worthy and it's non-religious, right? The hypocrisy is DELICIOUS, Mark. Thank you. Thank you for being soooooo open-minded and respectful of the beliefs of others just like you'd expect in return. This REEKS of, "Please, be open-minded, as long as it doesn't conflict with what I believe. Thanks!"

By the way...the kid wasn't using it as a get-out-of-jail free card. He made the choice, the sacrifice, based on his personal beliefs. If you'd ever wrestled or parented a wrestler, you might better understand what a HUGE deal this is. Wrestling takes a level of commitment and conditioning that's unparalelled in other sports. Even at the Junior League level, kids ages 6 and up spend between 6-12 hours per week working out, practicing for the weekend's tournaments, dual meets, etc. For a kid to forfeit for ANY reason is unfathomable to wrestlers, coaches, and parents alike. The kid should be commended for not compromising his personal beliefs and values to avoid being mocked and ridiculed by open-minded, progressive folks like yourself.

Not sure any high school kid should be mocked or ridiculed, but I think he's using his beliefs as a weak crutch, even if he whole-heartedly believes in it. You're out there to compete -- against whoever. Is a Muslim supposed to be commended for not wrestling a Jew? Get out there on the mat and do your thing. Wrestle her like you would anyone else. It happens often enough that raising a stink about it looks silly. In all the tournaments I wrestled in I never saw someone forfeit so he wouldn't have to wrestle a girl. Part of me thinks it was more cowardice than anything else. But I don't think there's anything to commend him for. He was in a tournament and quit. Didn't even compete. That's not chivalry, it's weakness.

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I'm not religious so I don't agree with the kid's rationale, but he obviously thought hard about this, is willing to live with the result of his decision, and was respectful about it. That's about all you can ask for from someone making a controversial decision. I wish more grownups acted like this.

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Not sure any high school kid should be mocked or ridiculed, but I think he's using his beliefs as a weak crutch, even if he whole-heartedly believes in it. You're out there to compete -- against whoever. Is a Muslim supposed to be commended for not wrestling a Jew? Get out there on the mat and do your thing. Wrestle her like you would anyone else. It happens often enough that raising a stink about it looks silly. In all the tournaments I wrestled in I never saw someone forfeit so he wouldn't have to wrestle a girl. Part of me thinks it was more cowardice than anything else. But I don't think there's anything to commend him for. He was in a tournament and quit. Didn't even compete. That's not chivalry, it's weakness.

It had nothing to do with religious discrimination, though. That's not an apples-to-apples comparison. The kid was raised to respect a woman and what is/isn't appropriate in terms of putting your hands on her. Wrestling her conflicted with how he was brought up.

For what it's worth, I did, in fact, see a boy forfeit because he didn't want to wrestle a girl last season. I have no idea on what his decision was based, but it happened at least once.

Also, the kid's record indicates to me that he's no coward.

What if he forfeit to bring attention to the depletion of rainforests? Or ending world hunger? There are some who'd commend him, but I don't even think that's what he was after in this case. It drew attention from the media, and when asked for an explanation, he and his father offered. They didn't lobby the tournament officials to remove the girl from the tournament or ask them to re-seed him to avoid having to square off with her. It was about as silent a protest as one could muster save for inquiries from the media. Nothing about what he did warrants the label "coward" nor should he be mocked as Mark implied.

For the record, like I said before...Cole had to wrestle a girl two years ago. He told me all the reasons it made him uncomfortable and asked if there was any way out of it. I gave him his options: Wrestle or forfeit. I told him that my preference was that he respect her like any other opponent, go out, and do his best, but the decision was his. I was (mostly) glad he chose to wrestle her, but I would have supported him if he didn't.

By the way....YOU'RE weak. :b

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I'm not religious so I don't agree with the kid's rationale, but he obviously thought hard about this, is willing to live with the result of his decision, and was respectful about it. That's about all you can ask for from someone making a controversial decision. I wish more grownups acted like this.

Thank you. I think we agree that the kid's certainly not worthy of ridicule.

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It had nothing to do with religious discrimination, though. That's not an apples-to-apples comparison. The kid was raised to respect a woman and what is/isn't appropriate in terms of putting your hands on her. Wrestling her conflicted with how he was brought up.

For what it's worth, I did, in fact, see a boy forfeit because he didn't want to wrestle a girl last season. I have no idea on what his decision was based, but it happened at least once.

Also, the kid's record indicates to me that he's no coward.

What if he forfeit to bring attention to the depletion of rainforests? Or ending world hunger? There are some who'd commend him, but I don't even think that's what he was after in this case. It drew attention from the media, and when asked for an explanation, he and his father offered. They didn't lobby the tournament officials to remove the girl from the tournament or ask them to re-seed him to avoid having to square off with her. It was about as silent a protest as one could muster save for inquiries from the media. Nothing about what he did warrants the label "coward" nor should he be mocked as Mark implied.

For the record, like I said before...Cole had to wrestle a girl two years ago. He told me all the reasons it made him uncomfortable and asked if there was any way out of it. I gave him his options: Wrestle or forfeit. I told him that my preference was that he respect her like any other opponent, go out, and do his best, but the decision was his. I was (mostly) glad he chose to wrestle her, but I would have supported him if he didn't.

By the way....YOU'RE weak. :b

I just don't see how not wrestling her is a sign of respect. If anything it's just the opposite. Besides, it's not foreplay. It's competition. She's not hoping to get him to cop a feel, and he's not going to do that. But if he respected her he would have treated her like any other athlete and tried to beat her. Instead he prematurely decided she wasn't his equal on the mat.

You could also draw parallels to the way Muslim and Arab men treat women in the middle east, though even I won't say it's the same thing. But ultimately I don't see it as honorable, even if he didn't ask for and try to exploit the attention he got from it.

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I just don't see how not wrestling her is a sign of respect. If anything it's just the opposite. Besides, it's not foreplay. It's competition. She's not hoping to get him to cop a feel, and he's not going to do that. But if he respected her he would have treated her like any other athlete and tried to beat her. Instead he prematurely decided she wasn't his equal on the mat.

You could also draw parallels to the way Muslim and Arab men treat women in the middle east, though even I won't say it's the same thing. But ultimately I don't see it as honorable, even if he didn't ask for and try to exploit the attention he got from it.

The kid put his morals/values above the sport. Many people view that as a noble act. When Tamir "The Jewish Jordan" Goodman was being recruited, one of the obstacles standing in his way were faith-based limitations on what days/nights he could/couldn't play in a game. Had anyone condemned him for not putting his beliefs aside, his critics would have been ridiculed. "Come on, it's not like we're forcing him to eat non-kosher food here! It's competition!"

Comparing it to the way Muslim and Arab men treat women in the Middle East is a HUUUUUGE stretch, John. C'mon. If the kid said, "She's got no business in this tournament or wrestling in general. A woman's role is...", then you'd have a valid point, but you don't. HE wasn't comfortable putting his hands on a woman in the ways necessary for him to compete and/or win, whether it was for sport or not. He put his spiritual beliefs above the sport. Whether you agree or disagree (and again, I'm not totally comfortable with it but I still pushed my son to handle his business with a female opponent), I think the kid should be commended for having the conviction to RESPECTFULLY concede and accepting the results of his actions. In this case, after months (years?) of hard work, he relinquished his opportunity to compete for a state title.

Religious conviction is what kept Tamir Goodman off the court on Friday nights and Saturdays, and the same thing is what kept this kid from Iowa from hitting the mat against a girl.

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OK my apologies if the desciption was too graphic but that's pretty much what was happening.

I guess to be more specific I had her in a headlock and our bodies were perpendicular, like the letter T. Her right arm was basically across her throat as I was lifting her head and putting all my weight on her upper torso. That's textbook form and you want to squeeze as hard as you can and 'get heavy'. When your opponent has you like that, it's hard to breathe to say the least.

Actually to me that sounds just as bad as what I posted before, so I apologize in advance if it's too graphic or offensive. Believe me I didn't feel very manly for doing it and my teammates' comments made it worse. It especially doesn't sound right using the word 'her' which is why I don't think girls should be allowed to wrestle the boys at that level. But that kind of stuff happens all the time in wrestling. You are often in very uncomfortable situations. It's a brutal sport and that stuff is part of the game.

I suppose the most important question is:

Why is a state champ wrestler throwing a girl in a headlock?

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Because he respects her enough to whip her a**! :D

Hahaha.

Sorry Brotha J, the headlock is the weakest move in the wrestling book. A move only reserved for the heavyweights, imo.

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Hahaha.

Sorry Brotha J, the headlock is the weakest move in the wrestling book. A move only reserved for the heavyweights, imo.

I wouldn't call it the weakest move in the wrestling book, particularly if you identify that your opponent is susceptible and you can snap it into a takedown pretty quickly. The counter to the headlock, though, is probably the easiest (yet toughest for some Junior League wrestlers) to learn:

A. Hand on opponent's elbow.

B. Push arm off of head.

C. You're out!

I'm pretty sure I could take you down via the headlock, though.

Edited by ScottieBaseball

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