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I said that the signing bonus was not evenly spread out over the life of the deal, and that most of the bonus money was paid out by the last years of the deal enabling the team to cut bait with minimal penalty. That is correct in 99.9% of contracts, even though I mixed up the 30% rule with salary/signing bonus.

Sue me.

Anything to say about Ray Rice's 4.5 YPC average or just going to ignore that?

Have you looked up all the HOF backs and see what their averages look like?

Of course not, you just move on to Flacco and try to do a little more cherry picking of stats that is useless.

Your tone in this thread is absurd.

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I am Rice's biggest fan and always want to see him in the game, but I think they need to rotate Williams and even Allen in a little more to spell Rice. How many times does Rice bust off a 20+ yard run and they hand him the ball the very next play?

I think they need to protect Rice a little more. And Williams and Allen are suitable back-ups.

Rice himself is asking for this. He said he'd give up carries if it meant keeping Williams warm. Nothing good about the 2nd RB being cold on the sidelines.

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I said that the signing bonus was not evenly spread out over the life of the deal, and that most of the bonus money was paid out by the last years of the deal enabling the team to cut bait with minimal penalty. That is correct in 99.9% of contracts, even though I mixed up the 30% rule with salary/signing bonus.

Sue me.

Anything to say about Ray Rice's 4.5 YPC average or just going to ignore that?

Have you looked up all the HOF backs and see what their averages look like?

Of course not, you just move on to Flacco and try to do a little more cherry picking of stats that is useless.

So, are we supposed to look up career stats and compare them to Rice's early, prime years? I mean, don't you think Rice's ypc will go down as he ages and wears down?

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I said that the signing bonus was not evenly spread out over the life of the deal, and that most of the bonus money was paid out by the last years of the deal enabling the team to cut bait with minimal penalty. That is correct in 99.9% of contracts, even though I mixed up the 30% rule with salary/signing bonus.

Sue me.

Anything to say about Ray Rice's 4.5 YPC average or just going to ignore that?

Have you looked up all the HOF backs and see what their averages look like?

Of course not, you just move on to Flacco and try to do a little more cherry picking of stats that is useless.

Nah, I'd rather just trade you.

You're incapable of having a conversation/dialogue. You choose to accuse me of cherry picking stats as a means to converse on the topic at hand, just because you don't agree with me.

I'm a huge Rice and Flacco fan, but don't let facts get in the way of your out of control teenage rampage.

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I said that the signing bonus was not evenly spread out over the life of the deal, and that most of the bonus money was paid out by the last years of the deal enabling the team to cut bait with minimal penalty. That is correct in 99.9% of contracts, even though I mixed up the 30% rule with salary/signing bonus.

Sue me.

Anything to say about Ray Rice's 4.5 YPC average or just going to ignore that?

Have you looked up all the HOF backs and see what their averages look like?

Of course not, you just move on to Flacco and try to do a little more cherry picking of stats that is useless.

Yeah, that's not true either. It doesn't matter when any guaranteed money is paid. It's accounted for in the NFL by spreading it out over the life of the deal despite when they actually pay it.

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Yeah, that's not true either. It doesn't matter when any guaranteed money is paid. It's accounted for in the NFL by spreading it out over the life of the deal despite when they actually pay it.
LOL...Its like you are the bat and he is the ball...and he is sitting there on a tee.

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I don't know that I'd get too hung up on YPC for anything. Of course, as a general rule, you'd like your back to 4.0 YPC or more but that only tells you so much.

Look at how many of our total yards that Rice accounts for. If my math is right, as a team we have a total of 1836 yds from scrimmage this year and Ray Rice has accounted for 700 yds rushing and receiving so far. That puts him at 38% of our total offensive output. Your not going to convince me that "generic RB of your choice" is going to duplicate that kind of output.

In regards to what it may or may not cost to lock Rice up long term, you have to remember that Ray and Ed are going to be coming off the books shortly, which will create some space. Also, there are plenty of ways to be creative under the cap and retain the guys you want to retain.

I could see us giving Rice a 5 yr deal with $20-25 mill guaranteed. If you structure the deal correctly, we could move the larger annual salary where we need to in an effort to make the deal as cap friendly as possible. For a guy with production like Rice, I don't see that type of deal as unreasonable or anyway crippling to our franchise.

Also, when talking about the Ravens FO, I have the utmost confidence the right thing will be done. If Rice wants more money the Ravens deem appropriate, they'll let him walk.

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I don't know that I'd get too hung up on YPC for anything. Of course, as a general rule, you'd like your back to 4.0 YPC or more but that only tells you so much.

Look at how many of our total yards that Rice accounts for. If my math is right, as a team we have a total of 1836 yds from scrimmage this year and Ray Rice has accounted for 700 yds rushing and receiving so far. That puts him at 38% of our total offensive output. Your not going to convince me that "generic RB of your choice" is going to duplicate that kind of output.

In regards to what it may or may not cost to lock Rice up long term, you have to remember that Ray and Ed are going to be coming off the books shortly, which will create some space. Also, there are plenty of ways to be creative under the cap and retain the guys you want to retain.

I could see us giving Rice a 5 yr deal with $20-25 mill guaranteed. If you structure the deal correctly, we could move the larger annual salary where we need to in an effort to make the deal as cap friendly as possible. For a guy with production like Rice, I don't see that type of deal as unreasonable or anyway crippling to our franchise.

Also, when talking about the Ravens FO, I have the utmost confidence the right thing will be done. If Rice wants more money the Ravens deem appropriate, they'll let him walk.

Great post, per the usual primetime!

Edited by The Rick

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What the hell! I argued the hell out of Emmitt Smith not being over rated and guess what stat got thrown in my face over and over YPC. That is the measurement for how good a back is what they said. Where were you guys when I was arguing vs practically everyone haha I could have used some back up in that thread.

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What the hell! I argued the hell out of Emmitt Smith not being over rated and guess what stat got thrown in my face over and over YPC. That is the measurement for how good a back is what they said. Where were you guys when I was arguing vs practically everyone haha I could have used some back up in that thread.

I think everybody or most everybody agreed that Emmit was a great back, a HOF back. Just overrated in the sense that he is not the greatest of all time or even has much of a claim to being the GOAT.

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I think everybody or most everybody agreed that Emmit was a great back, a HOF back. Just overrated in the sense that he is not the greatest of all time or even has much of a claim to being the GOAT.

Emmit Smith was the beneficiary of one of the greatest OLines of all time. In the heyday of the 90's Cowboys' dynasty, the holes that were opened for ridiculous. You could've driven an 18 wheeler through them!!

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Let's use round numbers here.

Let's say you are going to agree to a 5 year 20MM dollar deal with the Ravens. As part of that 20MM deal, the Ravens agree to guarantee 10MM of that money. Now, it doesn't matter at all when or how you receive that 10MM. The Ravens can stroke a check for 10MM on day 1 of your contract, on day one of the league year or perhaps in year 3 once you've played out your last contract.....it doesnt matter so forget about it.

So over that 5 years, we are also going to pay you another 10MM in salary. We might structure that as 1MM in year 1, 2MM in year 2, 2MM in year 3, 2MM in year 4 and 3MM in year 5.

To account for your contract for salary cap purposes, we'll first allocate 2MM in each year to account for your 10MM in guaranteed money. We are just spreading it out over the life of the contract so our base salary cap number in each year is 2MM before we get to salary. This is our cap hit in each give year at this point.

In using our salary example above, just add the salary figure from each year to the 2MM in any given year to get that year's cap number. This is the amount that will count against the cap. For example, in year 3 our cap number is 4MM.

At a minimum, the Ravens will have to account for that 10MM in guaranteed money. So let's say the Ravens decide to part ways with you in year 3 at the end of the season. Once that happens, we'll still have to account for the final two years in guaranteed money totaling 4MM.

So we'll have a 4MM dollar cap hit but well save 5MM from our cap because we eliminated your salary in years 4 and 5. Salary is not guaranteed and it's an immediate savings to the cap.

Just to be clear about something, your cap number and cap hit are two different things. Your cap hit is simply the affect of cutting a player and taking the "hit" against the cap like we did in our example of 4MM. Sometimes you'll hear the term "dead money" which is simply the guaranteed amount to be accounted for against the cap. It's often called dead money because you might have already been paid your 10MM.

Cap number is just the salary in any given year plus that year's guaranted amount.

Hope this helps.

Great stuff as always, thanks.

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Emmit Smith was the beneficiary of one of the greatest OLines of all time. In the heyday of the 90's Cowboys' dynasty, the holes that were opened for ridiculous. You could've driven an 18 wheeler through them!!

At the end of his career, they did! Plus, his beard is weird. ;)

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