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Os acquire Saunders.

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I'll wait and see what Saunders does before I criticize DD's trade. I understand where DD is coming from, though. Saunders does offer more value(potentially) to the ball club. We have young guys, let's be honest they aren't proven to be consistent starters at this level(Not saying they will never be) I guess we'll have to wait and find out. I can't wait for Jason to come back!

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In terms of runs scored, the ranks are as follows:

AL EAST (Excluding Baltimore):

2. Red Sox

4. Yankees

10. Blue Jays

17. Rays

NL West (excluding Diamondbacks):

7. Rockies

16. Giants

24. Dodgers

27. Padres

How can you say that division doesn't play a role when you're playing almost 60 games against teams in the bottom half of the league in terms of offense??

1. He didn't. Terrible straw man.

2. The difference between most of these teams is still only a fraction of a run per game.

3. The Red Sox and the Blue Jays are significantly weakened given recent events.

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I'll wait and see what Saunders does before I criticize DD's trade. I understand where DD is coming from, though. Saunders does offer more value(potentially) to the ball club. We have young guys, let's be honest they aren't proven to be consistent starters at this level(Not saying they will never be) I guess we'll have to wait and find out. I can't wait for Jason to come back!

That's an excellent post. I just hope that when Saunders is added to the roster, Steve Johnson goes to the BP and Jake is sent out. JS earned on a spot here, Arrieta certainly has not. However, baseball, like life, isn't always fair.

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Britton and Johnson are quite a ways away from being consistent success.

:agree:

I think it's a smart move to have veteran experience in the rotation during September (the O's had none before Saunders)

BUT that's not to say Zach and Steve will not be huge! I would be very happy after Hammel returns to see a rotation of Hammel, Chen, Tillman, Saunders and Gonzalez with Britton and Johnson in the pen as long relievers. I would also imagine that the O's carry one extra pitcher in the pen once the playoffs start so you might not have to bump anyone out.

sfosfan

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In terms of runs scored, the ranks are as follows:

AL EAST (Excluding Baltimore):

2. Red Sox

4. Yankees

10. Blue Jays

17. Rays

NL West (excluding Diamondbacks):

7. Rockies

16. Giants

24. Dodgers

27. Padres

How can you say that division doesn't play a role when you're playing almost 60 games against teams in the bottom half of the league in terms of offense?? To make matters worse, you compare it to the AL East which has almost 60 games against teams in the top third!

I simply compared them the only way that made sense...and that was against similar competition in the AL West in a similar time span. Saunders is a joke...this trade is a joke.

The Orioles and their opponents average 4.41 runs/game/team. The D'backs and their opponents average 4.36. The run contexts of the two teams have been nearly identical. You can argue that those numbers don't reflect the talent difference between the NL and AL, and you'd be right. But you're not arguing that, you presented unadjusted rankings.

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Joe Saunders is not very good and will struggle against AL teams. If we wanted a lefty to pitch to a 5.00 ERA with 5.0k/9 we could have worked the 40 man to bring Eveland back. I'd much rather roll with the pitchers we have now then give innings to Saunders. I was pleased we dodged Joe Blanton - but now we went out and got the lefthanded Joe Blanton. I don't think Lindstrom is a huge loss - but he'd been effective when used and I'm not keen on giving up anything else - so it doesn't matter who the PTBNL is - we've already paid too much. I wouldn't have picked Saunders up for free if he was released - unless it was for Norfolk - so I'm not happy with this move. I'd be somewhat ok if we got Saunders for free and intended him to be an occasional lefty specialist/ and otherwise longman out of the pen - but they are going to start him. It's depth - and he'll be no worse than Hunter likely - but it's a move I'd rather have not happened. And if the PTBNL is anyone of anyone consquence I'm even more disappointed

Don't expect Saunders to get more than 2 starts if he's isn't pitching well. It's crunch time, no time for experimentation.

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I'm a big Lindstrom fan, but if you had told me that we traded Jeremy Guthrie for Hammel and Saunders + cash, I'd consider that a great deal.

That's what I think.

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The Orioles and their opponents average 4.41 runs/game/team. The D'backs and their opponents average 4.36. The run contexts of the two teams have been nearly identical. You can argue that those numbers don't reflect the talent difference between the NL and AL, and you'd be right. But you're not arguing that, you presented unadjusted rankings.

Wow, his away numbers the past two years have actually been very good.

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I like Lindstrom, but anytime you can trade a middle reliever for a consistent, veteran starter, it's a no brainer IMO. Solid move to add depth to the rotation.

NO NO NO - moronic mentality! :angryfire:

You sound like Jim Duquette from the old days - "Philosophically, any time you can trade a reliever for a starter, you've got to do it."

You DON'T do it when you are trading an effective relief pitcher for a league average 4th/5th starter who has not been effective in the AL.

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I guess we'll see even more Kevin Gregg now. :( I don't care what he's done lately....still don't trust him.

I think come September 1st we'll see Arrieta, and Hunter and others in the pen. And they'll be options before Gregg. A lot of mediocre starters can replicate Lindstrom's performance when working out of the pen. Lindstrom's FIP and xFIP are 3.50-4.00. Once you subtract the 1.00 run/game a typical pitcher gains moving to the pen Arrieta's FIP and xFIP are better. Hunter's ERA the first time through the lineup is better than Lindstrom's.

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NO NO NO - moronic mentality! :angryfire:

You sound like Jim Duquette from the old days - "Philosophically, any time you can trade a reliever for a starter, you've got to do it."

You DON'T do it when you are trading an effective relief pitcher for a league average 4th/5th starter who has not been effective in the AL.

But you need to remember that an average starter is a 1.00 run/game better than league average ERA as a reliever. So if Lindstrom was a 3.50-4.00 ERA guy going forward, as his peripherals suggest, that's the equivalent of a 5.00 ERA starter. If you think Saunders is a 5.00 ERA guy in the AL East, he's providing as much value per inning as Lindstrom, but in at least twice as many innings.

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I guess we'll see even more Kevin Gregg now. :( I don't care what he's done lately....still don't trust him.

No, Arrieta is replacing Lindstrom. Johnson is probably going to the pen. I wonder (hope!) that Gregg is just dropped.

That said, the White Sox lineups lefties:

Dewayne Wise, Adam Dunn , AJ Pierzynski. Dewayne hits lefties worse than righties in terms of average, but in terms of power he does better against lefties. AJ's numbers are weaker across the board against lefties. Dunn is about the same.

Their RH heavy hitters: Youkilis, Konerko, Rios

On the plus side, Rios and Konerko have been ~<.800 OPS in August. Hopefully we can keep them under wraps. Youk has been very strong in August, though.

It's a tough lineup, that's for sure. With the biggies to look out for: Youkilis, Dunn, Konerko, Rios, and AJ.

For reference, the White Sox are 5th in total runs scored this year with 596. They average about 4.77 a game. Actually more than Detroit. Top 5:

Texas

Boston

New York

LA

Chicago

As for their pitching? They're actually 5 best in runs allowed as well with only 522. About 4.18 per game. Now, their rotation isn't the Rays or Oakland, but it's still formidable.

We'll be facing:

Francisco Liriano vs. Chen

Chris Sale vs. Gonzalez

Peavy vs. ???

Quintana vs. ???

I think our best chance is Monday against Liriano. With the ChiSox he's sporting a 4.39 ERA and a 1.350 WHIP. He's walking about 4 every 9 innings. Granted, he's striking out 10 every 9 as well.

Sale is just beast-mode like. 2.65 ERA, 8.8 SO/9, 2.1 BB/9. 1.033 WHIP. He's basically another Brandon Morrow type.

Peavy is having a resurgent year. 3.09 ERA, 1.080 WHIP, 8.0 SO/9, 1.9 BB/9.

Quintana is another toughie. 2.86 ERA, 1.191 WHIP, 5.1 SO/9, 2.2 BB/9. Over his last 6 games, he's been more hittable, but he's still very good.

This is going to be a very, very tough stretch for the Orioles. We're basically running into a buzz saw. Win today, win tomorrow. See how the last 3 against the ChiSox fall into place.

Go O's!

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This trade demands nothing less than an aggressive, emphatic, unequivocal response.

Gentleman, I just completed the loudest, most obvious shoulder shrug in the history of shoulder shrugs.

Gotta go ice down.

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I wish there would be just one DD trade where it was clear the Orioles benefitted. It seems like every time we have to talk ourselves into believing that it's not horrible. Any time I hear we aquire anyone I get scared just waiting to find out what DD gave up. I would much rather have Lindstrom still in the pen and run out anyone but Hunter for the rotation spot.

When you're trading in shades of mediocrity, the distinctions are often hard to see. But DD sees them better than most. And when he's wrong, he seems ready to admit it and just move on. Saunders is a solid, veteran starter. I think this was a great pickup, personally.

It does two really important things, IMO: 1) It further pressurizes the competition to break into the rotation, or stay in the rotation. 2) It adds immediate veteran starting presence to the rotation, which was desperately needed.

As much as I'm excited by Tillman, Gonzo, Chen and especially Britton, their collective inexperience is concerning. I like the addition, even if Saunders doesn't work out.

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