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Ravens have agreed to a new contract with QB Joe Flacco.

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Joe Montana and John Unitas are the best QB's ever!

btw, as of right now, Joe Flacco is not close to either of them!

Analogy:

Noun

1) A comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

2) A correspondence or partial similarity.

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Analogy:

Noun

1) A comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

2) A correspondence or partial similarity.

Your point is?

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Your point is?

My point is that you jumped on what I said as if I was making a direct 1:1 comparison. I figured you might need to know what an analogy is, because that's what I was doing. Using two well known QBs that operated during the same period of time, one of whom was a stat machine, the other a consummate winner with a lot of hardware when he hung them up. Of COURSE Flacco isn't there yet. That wasn't the point. The point was to point out that you can quantify "best" in different ways.

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I just don't think he's the best QB in the league, hence he shouldn't be paid as if he is. Again, if they don't win the SB, he don't get this exact contract. It's the only reason he is now the highest paid player in the NFL. Other then saying he's not an elite QB, I have not once said anything negative about him. And IMO that's not negative, just the truth. He's not one of the top 5. He'd have a hard time breaking the top 10. If you sort his stats last year, he doesn't break the top 10 of any major catagory. He's never thrown for more the 4000 yards, never thrown more then 25 Td's in a season. He's above average, not elite.

What does "shouldn't" mean? The labor agreement between the players and owners, and the free market, determine the terms of service for a player. The highest paid player isn't necessarily the best. Joe happened to hit his free agent year just at the right time, and at a time when his team had no other alternatives. Thus he became, at least until the next big contract is signed, the highest paid player.

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My point is that you jumped on what I said as if I was making a direct 1:1 comparison. I figured you might need to know what an analogy is, because that's what I was doing. Using two well known QBs that operated during the same period of time, one of whom was a stat machine, the other a consummate winner with a lot of hardware when he hung them up. Of COURSE Flacco isn't there yet. That wasn't the point. The point was to point out that you can quantify "best" in different ways.

And I agreed with you. Also pointed out that Flacco is not and can not be compared to them, just yet. I can list many SB winning QB's who will never be close to nor compared to Joe Montana or Johnny U.

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What does "shouldn't" mean? The labor agreement between the players and owners, and the free market, determine the terms of service for a player. The highest paid player isn't necessarily the best. Joe happened to hit his free agent year just at the right time, and at a time when his team had no other alternatives. Thus he became, at least until the next big contract is signed, the highest paid player.

You really need me to define the words should not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contraction_%28grammar%29

A contraction is a shortened version of the written and spoken forms of a word, syllable, or word group, created by omission of internal letters.[1] In traditional grammar, contraction can denote the formation of a new word from one word or a group of words,

Edited by mark_beckens

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I just don't think he's the best QB in the league, hence he shouldn't be paid as if he is. Again, if they don't win the SB, he don't get this exact contract. It's the only reason he is now the highest paid player in the NFL. Other then saying he's not an elite QB, I have not once said anything negative about him. And IMO that's not negative, just the truth. He's not one of the top 5. He'd have a hard time breaking the top 10. If you sort his stats last year, he doesn't break the top 10 of any major catagory. He's never thrown for more the 4000 yards, never thrown more then 25 Td's in a season. He's above average, not elite.

I don't disagree with any of this. However I think there is more to athletes than just stats. There is something to be said for a guy who knows how to win and Joe seems to have that 'it' factor. Take a guy like Matt Ryan for example. Compare his stats and physical skills to Joe and you would probably prefer Ryan, but Ryan still seems to be learning how to win big games. Joe has a lot more experience playing in 3 AFC championship games and winning the SB. I certainly would take Joe over Ryan at the present time.

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I don't disagree with any of this. However I think there is more to athletes than just stats. There is something to be said for a guy who knows how to win and Joe seems to have that 'it' factor. Take a guy like Matt Ryan for example. Compare his stats and physical skills to Joe and you would probably prefer Ryan, but Ryan still seems to be learning how to win big games. Joe has a lot more experience playing in 3 AFC championship games and winning the SB. I certainly would take Joe over Ryan at the present time.

I think QB's get too much credit when a team wins and too much blame when they lose. Winning playoff games much less SB's has more to do with the team as a whole then one player.

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My point is that you jumped on what I said as if I was making a direct 1:1 comparison. I figured you might need to know what an analogy is, because that's what I was doing. Using two well known QBs that operated during the same period of time, one of whom was a stat machine, the other a consummate winner with a lot of hardware when he hung them up. Of COURSE Flacco isn't there yet. That wasn't the point. The point was to point out that you can quantify "best" in different ways.

And it's a good analogy. My first instinct was to use Elway instead of Montana as the second part of the analogy but really Flacco stacks up with Montana better than Elway.

Granted, different eras here but Joe's stats match up better with Montana than Elways. Elway turned the ball over at a much higher rate than Montana or Joe to this point in his career. If Elway doesn't completely turn around his playoff fate with the last 2 years in '97 and '98 his legacy really is quite different. I never realized how overall "meh" his stats were. Sub 80 Qb rating for his reg season and postseason career with a ton of turnovers.

Also, I was surprised to see that Montana only threw for 30TDs once in his career and never threw for 4000 yards. In particular, Montana's first 5 years, also through his 27 yr old season, consisted of solid but not spectacular stats. ALso, through their first 13 playoff games they each have a 9-4 record and similar QB ratings. Flacco had a 19/8 TD to INT ratio while Montana was 23/16. The big differnce was Montana had already won 2 SBs.

Now, from that point on Montana was brillant. He won 2 more SBs. Had a TD/INt ratio of 22/5 and a QB rating around 110. I have no expectations of Joe Flacco producing close to those pure playoff numbers the rest of his career even if he does win more SBs.

So yes, Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all time but the comparison of Joe Montana to Joe Flacco through 5 seasons or 13 playoff games isn't that crazy. More to the point, it's a fair analogy of say Dan Marino/Montana as it is Matt Ryan to Joe Flacco.

Edited by ccbird

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And it's a good analogy. My first instinct was to use Elway instead of Montana as the second part of the analogy but really Flacco stacks up with Montana better than Elway.

Granted, different eras here but Joe's stats match up better with Montana than Elways. Elway turned the ball over at a much higher rate than Montana or Joe to this point in his career. If Elway doesn't completely turn around his playoff fate with the last 2 years in '97 and '98 his legacy really is quite different. I never realized how overall "meh" his stats were. Sub 80 Qb rating for his reg season and postseason career with a ton of turnovers.

Also, I was surprised to see that Montana only threw for 30TDs once in his career and never threw for 4000 yards. In particular, Montana's first 5 years, also through his 27 yr old season, consisted of solid but not spectacular stats. ALso, through their first 13 playoff games they each have a 9-4 record and similar QB ratings. Joe had a 19/8 TD to INT ratio while Montana was 23/16. The big differnce was Montana had already won 2 SBs.

Now, from that point on Montana was brillant. He won 2 more SBs. Had a TD/INt ratio of 22/5 and a QB rating around 110. I have no expectations of Joe Flacco producing close to those pure playoff numbers the rest of his career even if he does win more SBs.

So yes, Joe Montana is the greatest QB of all time but the comparison of Joe Montana to Joe Flacco through 5 starting seasons or 13 playoff games isn't that crazy. More to the point, it's a fair analogy of comparing say Dan Marino/Montana as it is comparing say Matt Ryan/ Joe Flacco.

It's difficult comparing stats from different eras. Today's game is so much different then it was in the 80's.

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It's difficult comparing stats from different eras. Today's game is so much different then it was in the 80's.

To a point. Still, QB rating minimize that difference a decent amount. Yes, it's much more likely to see 4000+ passing and 30+ TD passes now than 20-30 yrs ago. But QB ratings factor in more than just fantasy passing numers. I'll also point to the same playoff record through 13 games. Now, again, Montana had an extra ring on his finger and ended up being brillant from that point on, particularly in the playoffs. Montana actually had a stretch in the mid 80s where he didn't play well in the playoffs losing twice to the Giants and once to the Vikings and playing poorly in those games. It was really the second 2 SB runs and late 80's/ early 90s where Montana cemented his legacy as the GOAT. Again, I have no expectations of Flacco playing like Joe Montana from this point on in his career, though like a lot of other Qbs as they get older, he'll start to put up better pure stats. Ala Roethlisberger, Eli, and even Brady. Brady over his first 6 years, btw when he's won all of his titles, wasn't a great fantasy style QB. His first 6 years the most TD passes he threw was 28 and his QB rating mostly in the mid to high 80's.

Edited by ccbird

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Joe Montana and John Unitas are the best QB's ever!

btw, as of right now, Joe Flacco is not close to either of them!

Both of the players you mention operated on teams that weren't hindered by the salary cap. I think its important to mention because those guys could grow with the players around them.

I think Joe ranks somewhere between 5-10 in the league. He gets points from me based on the mistakes he doesn't make.

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And I agreed with you. Also pointed out that Flacco is not and can not be compared to them, just yet. I can list many SB winning QB's who will never be close to nor compared to Joe Montana or Johnny U.

1) My bad. It didn't read like you were agreeing with me, mainly because;

2) I can, and did, compare them, you saying I can't implies you either don't understand the analogy or you really don't agree with me at all. It's not about saying Flacco is the next Montana. The comparison has to do with how they get the job done. I wouldn't presume to equate the career of Montana to Flacco today. But Montana wasn't a flashy stat guy. He had receivers he could throw it up to where only they'd get it. He had a more than credible threat to pass to out of the backfield. And when the game was on the line, he got it done. And he looked like a god during the postseason. I make the analogy because I would take THAT style of play that brings home wins, gets in to the playoffs and goes deep over the Marinos of the world. It's what they mean to their team.

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1) My bad. It didn't read like you were agreeing with me, mainly because;

2) I can, and did, compare them, you saying I can't implies you either don't understand the analogy or you really don't agree with me at all. It's not about saying Flacco is the next Montana. The comparison has to do with how they get the job done. I wouldn't presume to equate the career of Montana to Flacco today. But Montana wasn't a flashy stat guy. He had receivers he could throw it up to where only they'd get it. He had a more than credible threat to pass to out of the backfield. And when the game was on the line, he got it done. And he looked like a god during the postseason. I make the analogy because I would take THAT style of play that brings home wins, gets in to the playoffs and goes deep over the Marinos of the world. It's what they mean to their team.

I would argue that the Marino's of the world, their teams had issues with running the ball and defense. It's still a team game and the QB gets too much credit and blame for wins and losses. Along with winning the big one.

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