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A reason for negatism?

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I have a bad memory. Was it the Orioles or just insiders who may have set the bar of optimism a little too high this year? Not trying to knock our insiders if it was them, since they only repeat what they hear. However, didn't we hear right off the bat how we'd be serious players for Lee AND Soriano, and that a mid tier relief pitcher (Meche, Lilly, Padilla) was on the radar? It almost sounded like it was almost a menu and we just had to choose one from each menu. Now, I never thought we'd get Lee or Soriano and we certainly were serious players for Lee and I never had my heart set on any of those pitchers. At the same time, we were never in on Soriano, and came up short on Lee. And now we aren't even attempting to go after one of the three pitchers. I think some of the negatism is just brought on by once again seeing big dreams and midling results. Fixing the bullpen is fine but it seems as though we were promised a ride by someone. I know. I know. It's not over. Just thinking out loud. Please don't get too uptight about this subject. You know, like don't let your underwear get all bunched up over this. Just checking to see if anyone else has this feeling. Even if the market is crazy, doesn't it get kind of tiring to hear big ideas and then "we didnt' expect the market to get this crazy"? What market will they predict correctly? During the next depression?

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I have a bad memory. Was it the Orioles or just insiders who may have set the bar of optimism a little too high this year? Not trying to knock our insiders if it was them, since they only repeat what they hear. However, didn't we hear right off the bat how we'd be serious players for Lee AND Soriano, and that a mid tier relief pitcher (Meche, Lilly, Padilla) was on the radar? It almost sounded like it was almost a menu and we just had to choose one from each menu. Now, I never thought we'd get Lee or Soriano and we certainly were serious players for Lee and I never had my heart set on any of those pitchers. At the same time, we were never in on Soriano, and came up short on Lee. And now we aren't even attempting to go after one of the three pitchers. I think some of the negatism is just brought on by once again seeing big dreams and midling results. Fixing the bullpen is fine but it seems as though we were promised a ride by someone. I know. I know. It's not over. Just thinking out loud. Please don't get too uptight about this subject. You know, like don't let your underwear get all bunched up over this. Just checking to see if anyone else has this feeling.

I think there are a few factors at play here. The first is that they underestimated the market again. Maybe not by a lot because they seemed to think it would go up. But no one was predicting 8/136 for Soriano. I don't think anyone had a chance at Soriano. That deal was probably on the table for about five seconds before Boras/Soriano took it.

I think they were serious about Lee but rightly realized they could fill a lot more holes with all that money.

As for the starters, maybe they read this board and figured out that none of these guys are any better than Benson and Lopez. :D From there I think their strategy was to build the bullpen and look for a one or two value starters who would give them some depth to trade for a bat or two. The other thing is that starters take a while to sign. A lot of them are probably waiting for Zito to set the market.

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I think the expectations have shrunk. Hopefully, nobody here has fooled themselves into thinking that they even Can put together a championship type team next season.

The difference this season is aggressiveness from the gitgo and a plan. On pitching, they realized they weren't going to get an ace, so they determined they needed to overhaul the pen. You can question the inteligence of the plan, but at least it was a plan, and they went at it very aggressively. There's no longer the feeling that their feet are stuck in the mud, and that Angelos is going to interfere in every move - so there is a light at the end of the sewage. And we'll see what they do with the rest of the roster.

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I for one am happy has hell where we are right now. I'm pleased we didn't pay $100 million+ for Soriano or Lee. Based on the contract Eaton just rec'd the Wright deal looks good. I don't think anyone promised any specific players just that we would be aggressive and would spend some $$$. Those things we have done.

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I for one am happy has hell where we are right now. I'm pleased we didn't pay $100 million+ for Soriano or Lee. Based on the contract Eaton just rec'd the Wright deal looks good. I don't think anyone promised any specific players just that we would be aggressive and would spend some $$$. Those things we have done.

BB...not trying to put you on the spot...but do you think we are at all interested in Manny and , if so, can we put something together to get him?

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I think the expectations have shrunk. Hopefully, nobody here has fooled themselves into thinking that they even Can put together a championship type team next season.

The difference this season is aggressiveness from the gitgo and a plan. On pitching, they realized they weren't going to get an ace, so they determined they needed to overhaul the pen. You can question the inteligence of the plan, but at least it was a plan, and they went at it very aggressively. There's no longer the feeling that their feet are stuck in the mud, and that Angelos is going to interfere in every move - so there is a light at the end of the sewage. And we'll see what they do with the rest of the roster.

You put it very well. And as badly as I wanted Soriano or Lee, their contracts are just insane. You have to draw the line somewhere, and the Orioles are on the right side of that line.

it is still November. There is plenty of time to address other needs. I want to see what they do in terms of LF and some lefty-mashing depth on the bench/DH. If they find a good solution there, I won't sweat the fact that they didn't go get a no. 3 starter. That always was the lowest priority in my book.

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BB...not trying to put you on the spot...but do you think we are at all interested in Manny and , if so, can we put something together to get him?

No talk about Manny. Cubs may be asking for too much for Jones. RLo for Mench will happen if the Brewers want him. Floyd or Gonzo will most likely be out left fielder unless something comes up at the winter meetings. Good chance we get Mulder.

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No talk about Manny. Cubs may be asking for too much for Jones. RLo for Mench will happen if the Brewers want him. Floyd or Gonzo will most likely be out left fielder unless something comes up at the winter meetings. Good chance we get Mulder.

More terrible signings.

Do the Orioles ever consider the long term? I mean EVER?

It is so frustrating to be a fan of a team that after 9 straight losing years, still doesn't get it.

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No talk about Manny. Cubs may be asking for too much for Jones. RLo for Mench will happen if the Brewers want him. Floyd or Gonzo will most likely be out left fielder unless something comes up at the winter meetings. Good chance we get Mulder.

Very interesting that there's a good chance we get Mulder. And then what? There's a lot of upside there, but how can you know whether to trade one of the incumbent starters until you get to March and see where he is physically?

If the Orioles were to sign Mulder and he returned to his old form, that is exaclty the kind of thing that could galvanize this team into a contender. Flanny & Duq would be executives of the year candidates if that happened.

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No talk about Manny. Cubs may be asking for too much for Jones. RLo for Mench will happen if the Brewers want him. Floyd or Gonzo will most likely be out left fielder unless something comes up at the winter meetings. Good chance we get Mulder.

Why get Mulder if we aren't going to trade pitching for something (other than Mench)? That would be pretty disappointing.

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Very interesting that there's a good chance we get Mulder. And then what? There's a lot of upside there, but how can you know whether to trade one of the incumbent starters until you get to March and see where he is physically?

If the Orioles were to sign Mulder and he returned to his old form, that is exaclty the kind of thing that could galvanize this team into a contender. Flanny & Duq would be executives of the year candidates if that happened.

If we got Mulder, I'd skip the Lopez for Mench deal and shop Lopez or Wright along with a pitching prospect or two for someone better and younger. Wright (or Lopez) and Penn could probably bring back something decent. Then you go with Lopez (or Wright) until Mulder is back.

Gibbons and Roberts (and maybe Mazzone?) must really be doing a number on Mulder out in Arizona, because I really thought he could get a better deal from someone else.

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Maybe Floyd will have one of those random 30 HR seasons...:rolleyes:

I'm glad to hear that Mench is still on the radar though.

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Very interesting that there's a good chance we get Mulder. And then what? There's a lot of upside there, but how can you know whether to trade one of the incumbent starters until you get to March and see where he is physically?

If the Orioles were to sign Mulder and he returned to his old form, that is exaclty the kind of thing that could galvanize this team into a contender. Flanny & Duq would be executives of the year candidates if that happened.

The problem with Mulder is you really need to sign him to a 1 year contract that has at least 1 option year attached to it.

You don't him here for this year, get healthy and then leave but you also can't give him a multi-year deal because you have no idea if he will be healthy enough to even pitch in 2008.

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Very interesting that there's a good chance we get Mulder. And then what? There's a lot of upside there, but how can you know whether to trade one of the incumbent starters until you get to March and see where he is physically?

If the Orioles were to sign Mulder and he returned to his old form, that is exaclty the kind of thing that could galvanize this team into a contender. Flanny & Duq would be executives of the year candidates if that happened.

Reports are he won't be able to pitch until mid season. Excess pitching is a good thing. This is also looked at as a possible long term move.

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More terrible signings.

Do the Orioles ever consider the long term? I mean EVER?

It is so frustrating to be a fan of a team that after 9 straight losing years, still doesn't get it.

Yes they do consider the long-term but it's focused primarily on the starting pitching since it's much more difficult than offense to obtain from the outside.

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