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3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

AJ met with PA directly and then Davis was signed. I’d say that’s a big part. 

Your assumption is that the old man listened.  I disagree that he did or that AJ had any impact at all.  Peter Angelos did what Peter Angelos wanted to do.  Yes, Adam expressed very publically that he wanted Davis, Markakis, O’Day signed, David Price pursued, etc etc.   Buck said it in a more veiled and sophisticated way for PR purposes as he knew his role.  Brady never really said squat publically because he was a behind the scenes guy who had no official spokesman role.  Dan was Dan...Mr. Oblique, clearly not his call, but not somebody, after his Toronto dalliance, who was in any position to influence or advocate a different view with the old man. 

Peter Angelos knew that Adam Jones was his employee, and was just a player, and knew Buck and DD and Brady were his employees too.   Period.   The deal was done by Peter Angelos and nobody else. 

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50 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, “lots” is something of an exaggeration.   Yaz debuted in the majors at 28.275.     I took a look at 2002-13 and gathered this data:

- 2,361 players debuted in this period.    Of those, only 383 (16.2%) were 27+ years old, and only 137 (5.8%) were as old as Yaz or older.    

- Of the 27+ group, only 55 players (14.4%) played a game in the majors in the 7th season including their debut year.

- Of the 28.275+ group, only 12 players (8.8%) played in a game in the 7th season following their debut year.   

Moreover, if you actually drill down on those 12 players:

- 6 of them were from Japan or Cuba, so their entry to the majors was delayed for that reason.    

- 10 of the 12 were pitchers, 7 of whom were primarily relief pitchers.    

In that period, the only US-born position player who debuted older than Yaz and played 7 years in the majors is Erik Kratz, a backup catcher.   As you might expect, he has bounced around between the majors and the minors numerous times, and coming into this season had accumulated 4.156 years of major league service despite playing in parts of 9 (now 10) major league seasons.    

In short, it’s not at all likely that Yaz will be in the majors in 2025.     

Excellent research.  But "lots" is subjective.  I bet if I move the dates back a few decades or centuries I could find enough to make my statement technically true.  :)

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17 hours ago, Philip said:

Speaking of interviews, I really wish somebody would reach out to Dan and or buck and see about arranging a “what went wrong” interview. I doubt it will happen, but I’d sure like to know what they have to say.

They would probably just blame each other.

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Oh snap. Frobby and Drungo head-to-head in message board theater. Frobby got the tko on this one. I look forward to the rematch. lol. 

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@Frobby, not trying to disprove your solid research, I'm just curious about old rookies. There have been 121 players who bb-ref classified as rookies at the age of 27 or older, who had 2+ win rookie seasons.  If you stretch the definition of a Yaz-like player to someone who only briefly played prior to age 27 you get a lot of hits.  Like Lew Ford, who had 83 PAs at 26, a 4-win season as a 27-year-old rookie, and several glorious months as a 2012 Oriole hero at 35.

Mike Aviles was a 27-year-old debutant who hit .325, and then had a 10-year-career.

Randy Milligan had just over 100 PAs at 25 and 26 before busting out with the 1989 Orioles at 27.

Garrett Jones crossed the 100-PA threshold as a 28-year-old, and ended up with 122 homers in an eight-year career.

Davey Lopes made his MLB debut at 27 and ended up with 577 stolen bases.

Scott Posednik had 31 MLB PAs prior to his age 27 rookie season where he hit .314 with 43 steals.

Minor league star Ike Boone (hit .400+ four times in the minors) hit .337 as a 27-year-old rookie in 1924, and .330 the following year.  The rest of his MLB career he had less than 200 PAs.

George Stone had two PAs prior to his 1905, age-28 rookie campaign where he led the league in hits.  The next year he led the league in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, and total bases.  Seven year career.  Maybe the most obscure 20th century player who once led the league practically everything.

Hyper-annoying Nats announcer FP Santangelo made his debut at 27, rookie at 28, played seven years.

Rich Amaral had a 10-year career after debuting at 29 and losing his rookie eligibility at 31.

David Newhan was a 30-year-old rookie.

And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Wagon Tongue Bill Keister.  Brief trials with the '96 and '98 Orioles.  As a 27-year-old rookie in '99 for the last NL Orioles he hit .329 with 16 triples. I think he got his nickname because he moved around about as well as a big honkin' iron-and-wood wagon tongue.  Although he stole 30+ bases multiple times, even under the modern, 1897-on definition.

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3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

@Frobby, not trying to disprove your solid research, I'm just curious about old rookies. There have been 121 players who bb-ref classified as rookies at the age of 27 or older, who had 2+ win rookie seasons.  If you stretch the definition of a Yaz-like player to someone who only briefly played prior to age 27 you get a lot of hits.  Like Lew Ford, who had 83 PAs at 26, a 4-win season as a 27-year-old rookie, and several glorious months as a 2012 Oriole hero at 35.

Mike Aviles was a 27-year-old debutant who hit .325, and then had a 10-year-career.

Randy Milligan had just over 100 PAs at 25 and 26 before busting out with the 1989 Orioles at 27.

Garrett Jones crossed the 100-PA threshold as a 28-year-old, and ended up with 122 homers in an eight-year career.

Davey Lopes made his MLB debut at 27 and ended up with 577 stolen bases.

Scott Posednik had 31 MLB PAs prior to his age 27 rookie season where he hit .314 with 43 steals.

Minor league star Ike Boone (hit .400+ four times in the minors) hit .337 as a 27-year-old rookie in 1924, and .330 the following year.  The rest of his MLB career he had less than 200 PAs.

George Stone had two PAs prior to his 1905, age-28 rookie campaign where he led the league in hits.  The next year he led the league in BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, and total bases.  Seven year career.  Maybe the most obscure 20th century player who once led the league practically everything.

Hyper-annoying Nats announcer FP Santangelo made his debut at 27, rookie at 28, played seven years.

Rich Amaral had a 10-year career after debuting at 29 and losing his rookie eligibility at 31.

David Newhan was a 30-year-old rookie.

And I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Wagon Tongue Bill Keister.  Brief trials with the '96 and '98 Orioles.  As a 27-year-old rookie in '99 for the last NL Orioles he hit .329 with 16 triples. I think he got his nickname because he moved around about as well as a big honkin' iron-and-wood wagon tongue.  Although he stole 30+ bases multiple times, even under the modern, 1897-on definition.

Well this is a trip down Memory Lane.  I had always seen Milligan as a player that was woefully underappreciated as an MLB ballplayer.  It looks like he was also woefully underappreciated as a minor league prospect.  He OPSed .877 in a 1/2 season of AA as a 22 year old, and they rewarded him by making him repeat an entire season in AA, where he OPSed .870.  Then he gets bounced around as a 24 year old, and OPSes 1.033 as a 25 year old in AAA.  I can only guess that this was because he wasn't a power hitter, so they assumed his ability to draw walks wouldn't translate to MLB.  My how times have changed.  A player, even a 1B, OPSing 1.033 in AAA and not getting a call-up would be seen as criminal today.

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4 hours ago, LookinUp said:

Oh snap. Frobby and Drungo head-to-head in message board theater. Frobby got the tko on this one. I look forward to the rematch. lol. 

Drungo did give the quiver while on the mat though. It may have been a straight KO if not called early. 

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4 hours ago, LookinUp said:

Oh snap. Frobby and Drungo head-to-head in message board theater. Frobby got the tko on this one. I look forward to the rematch. lol. 

That was OG v OG there. 

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16 minutes ago, Hallas said:

Well this is a trip down Memory Lane.  I had always seen Milligan as a player that was woefully underappreciated as an MLB ballplayer.  It looks like he was also woefully underappreciated as a minor league prospect.  He OPSed .877 in a 1/2 season of AA as a 22 year old, and they rewarded him by making him repeat an entire season in AA, where he OPSed .870.  Then he gets bounced around as a 24 year old, and OPSes 1.033 as a 25 year old in AAA.  I can only guess that this was because he wasn't a power hitter, so they assumed his ability to draw walks wouldn't translate to MLB.  My how times have changed.  A player, even a 1B, OPSing 1.033 in AAA and not getting a call-up would be seen as criminal today.

Back in his 1980s Abstracts Bill James would have lists of guys he called "Ken Phelps All Stars".  A lot of AAA players with relatively big numbers who coaches and GMs "knew" would flame out in the majors.  Ken Phelps of course was one.  At 25 in AAA he OPS'd .988.  At 27 in AAA he OPS'd 1.175.  At 28 in AAA he OPS'd 1.029.  He first got 100 PAs in a major league season at 28.  Many of these guys were like Milligan or Phelps - not terribly athletic, didn't play key defensive postiions, but could hit, walked a ton and got labeled AAAA players.  

Could you imagine someone having Phelps' 1982 today and getting sent back to AAA?  .333/.469/.706 with 46 homers, 108 walks, and 141 RBI in 132 games. The following season he spent 74 games in AAA.  And the year after that he spent another 12 games in the minors!  Finally in 1984 he got a real shot in the majors at the age of 29 and OPS'd .898.  That same year Cal Ripken OPS'd .884, Eddie Murray .918.  The Mariners, Royals, and Expos kept one of the better hitters in baseball in AAA for six years.

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3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Back in his 1980s Abstracts Bill James would have lists of guys he called "Ken Phelps All Stars".  A lot of AAA players with relatively big numbers who coaches and GMs "knew" would flame out in the majors.  Ken Phelps of course was one.  At 25 in AAA he OPS'd .988.  At 27 in AAA he OPS'd 1.175.  At 28 in AAA he OPS'd 1.029.  He first got 100 PAs in a major league season at 28.  Many of these guys were like Milligan or Phelps - not terribly athletic, didn't play key defensive postiions, but could hit, walked a ton and got labeled AAAA players.  

Could you imagine someone having Phelps' 1982 today and getting sent back to AAA?  .333/.469/.706 with 46 homers, 108 walks, and 141 RBI in 132 games. The following season he spent 74 games in AAA.  And the year after that he spent another 12 games in the minors!  Finally in 1984 he got a real shot in the majors at the age of 29 and OPS'd .898.  That same year Cal Ripken OPS'd .884, Eddie Murray .918.  The Mariners, Royals, and Expos kept one of the better hitters in baseball in AAA for six years.

Excellent reprise. 

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8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Back in his 1980s Abstracts Bill James would have lists of guys he called "Ken Phelps All Stars".  A lot of AAA players with relatively big numbers who coaches and GMs "knew" would flame out in the majors.  Ken Phelps of course was one.  At 25 in AAA he OPS'd .988.  At 27 in AAA he OPS'd 1.175.  At 28 in AAA he OPS'd 1.029.  He first got 100 PAs in a major league season at 28.  Many of these guys were like Milligan or Phelps - not terribly athletic, didn't play key defensive postiions, but could hit, walked a ton and got labeled AAAA players.  

Could you imagine someone having Phelps' 1982 today and getting sent back to AAA?  .333/.469/.706 with 46 homers, 108 walks, and 141 RBI in 132 games. The following season he spent 74 games in AAA.  And the year after that he spent another 12 games in the minors!  Finally in 1984 he got a real shot in the majors at the age of 29 and OPS'd .898.  That same year Cal Ripken OPS'd .884, Eddie Murray .918.  The Mariners, Royals, and Expos kept one of the better hitters in baseball in AAA for six years.

The glasses probably didn't help.  I almost wonder if he grew the mustache to make himself look more manly.

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1 hour ago, bobmc said:

Yesterday Christian Walker went deep off Clayton Kershaw (and was pied by AJ to boot) for the third time in eight AB's.  Who let this guy go again?  

Baltimore followed by Atlanta followed by Cincinnatti

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