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Morgan423

Pineda is throwing junk balls?

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Yea all it does is:

Improve command

Tighten spin (makes the slider harder to spot)

Help it break a bit more at the end

That hardly seems helpful at all. ;)

Of course if the hitters don't mind then whatever. Far be it from me to be outraged on their behalf.

That's your opinion. But I'll side with the host of MLB players, both current and retired hitters and pitchers, who have been all over ESPN and the MLB Network since the Pineda incident, discussing pine tar's effect and believe it does not make the ball do anything unnatural. It improves grip. I didn't hear any of them decry the practice.

Red Sox reliever Chris Capuano said, "There' just a difference to me. I think performance enhancement, to me, is doctoring the baseball. Scratching the ball, scuffing the ball. Maybe some kind of slippery substance to make the ball like a spitter.

"That's really crossing the line. But something to give it a little tack is essentially the same thing as a rosin bag. When you lick your fingers and get it wet and stick to rosin, it's to get a grip. Whether it's sunscreen — some guys put shaving cream on their arm. Sometimes it just gives it a little tack.

Capuano defended the practice, saying "it's not making the ball do anything unnatural."

The 35-year-old ex-Met did say Pineda shouldn't have been so obvious about it.

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That's your opinion. But I'll side with the host of MLB players, both current and retired hitters and pitchers, who have been all over ESPN and the MLB Network since the Pineda incident, discussing pine tar's effect and believe it does not make the ball do anything unnatural. It improves grip. I didn't hear any of them decry the practice.

Red Sox reliever Chris Capuano said, "There' just a difference to me. I think performance enhancement, to me, is doctoring the baseball. Scratching the ball, scuffing the ball. Maybe some kind of slippery substance to make the ball like a spitter.

"That's really crossing the line. But something to give it a little tack is essentially the same thing as a rosin bag. When you lick your fingers and get it wet and stick to rosin, it's to get a grip. Whether it's sunscreen — some guys put shaving cream on their arm. Sometimes it just gives it a little tack.

Capuano defended the practice, saying "it's not making the ball do anything unnatural."

The 35-year-old ex-Met did say Pineda shouldn't have been so obvious about it.

It isn't my opinion, it's Hayhurst's.

Getting some tack on the ball to increase the tightness of spin and supply late break is relatively idiot-proof.

http://deadspin.com/a-major-league-pitchers-guide-to-doctoring-a-baseball-1562307090

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That's your opinion. But I'll side with the host of MLB players, both current and retired hitters and pitchers, who have been all over ESPN and the MLB Network since the Pineda incident, discussing pine tar's effect and believe it does not make the ball do anything unnatural. It improves grip. I didn't hear any of them decry the practice.

Red Sox reliever Chris Capuano said, "There' just a difference to me. I think performance enhancement, to me, is doctoring the baseball. Scratching the ball, scuffing the ball. Maybe some kind of slippery substance to make the ball like a spitter.

"That's really crossing the line. But something to give it a little tack is essentially the same thing as a rosin bag. When you lick your fingers and get it wet and stick to rosin, it's to get a grip. Whether it's sunscreen — some guys put shaving cream on their arm. Sometimes it just gives it a little tack.

Capuano defended the practice, saying "it's not making the ball do anything unnatural."

The 35-year-old ex-Met did say Pineda shouldn't have been so obvious about it.

While I don't think that the pitcher's using pine tar or the other substances is going to go away, the pitchers are technically using illegal substances by using them. I know that most pitchers are using something to improve their grip on the baseball. Despite Capuano's rationalizations, much like the author in the posted article points out I believe that the pitchers are getting an advantage by getting tighter spins and more bite on their pitches. It's up to opposing managers to complain about the substances and I believe that Dave Johnson caused quite a stink when he complained about Joel Peralta of the Rays using pine tar on the mound. The penalty is steep, and the manager is going to expose his own staff to retribution.Technically, these guys are cheating but I don't think we'll see a rule change unless we see a real drop off in offensive production across the board in the big leagues.

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I understand that with the pine tar on Pineda's hand being so blatantly obvious that someone had to say something. But I don't think it's anymore obvious than the spot on the bill of Kimbrel, Balfour, or Valverde's hats, just to name a few.

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I understand that with the pine tar on Pineda's hand being so blatantly obvious that someone had to say something. But I don't think it's anymore obvious than the spot on the bill of Kimbrel, Balfour, or Valverde's hats, just to name a few.

HD technology has made it a lot easier to spot the offenders.

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Dirk Hayhurst? He was a horrible pitcher who decided to write books after a barely noticible 2 season career. Described by J.P. Arencibia as a "less than average" player, David Price said Hayhurst was a guy who "couldn't hack it" in the majors. I'm sorry, but Hayhurst's opinion on pine tar is just that. His opinion. It means nothing to me.

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Dirk Hayhurst? He was a horrible pitcher who decided to write books after a barely noticible 2 season career. Described by J.P. Arencibia as a "less than average" player, David Price said Hayhurst was a guy who "couldn't hack it" in the majors. I'm sorry, but Hayhurst's opinion on pine tar is just that. His opinion. It means nothing to me.

He wrote a book before he made it into the majors.

If there is any guy that knows what cheating looks like it is a marginal guy out of the bullpen.

I don't think he was much of an MLB pitcher, I don't care much for his personality, but he's a pretty smart fellow.

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In case you missed it Pineda was tossed tonight for having pine tar on his neck. Pretty blatant. Someone help me out with the embed.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2014_04_23_nyamlb_bosmlb_1&mode=video&content_id=32332517&tcid=vpp_copy_32332517

<object height="254" width="400">

</object>

What a dumb place to "hide" it. So much for not being obvious.

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Someone help me out with the embed.

<object width="400" height="254"><param name="movie" value="undefined/shared/flash/video/share/ObjectEmbedFrame.swf?content_id=32332517&width=400&height=254&property=mlb" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="scale" value="noscale" /><param name="salign" value="tl" /><embed src="undefined/shared/flash/video/share/ObjectEmbedFrame.swf?content_id=32332517&width=400&height=254&property=mlb" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="never" allowfullscreen="true" width="400" height="254" scale="noscale" salign ="tl" /></object>

Here you go.

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Must view.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qQ5Fpy0cxeM?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Dirk Hayhurst? He was a horrible pitcher who decided to write books after a barely noticible 2 season career. Described by J.P. Arencibia as a "less than average" player, David Price said Hayhurst was a guy who "couldn't hack it" in the majors. I'm sorry, but Hayhurst's opinion on pine tar is just that. His opinion. It means nothing to me.

Hey SeaBird, Doc Gooden a good enough pitcher for his opinion to matter?

Does he past whatever your threshold of competence is?

Because...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>lets put to rest all this talk about pine tar to get a better grip on the ball to protect the hitters!</p>— Dwight Gooden (@DocGooden16) <a href="

">April 24, 2014</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Pine tar is used 2 make ur breaking pitches sharper& help ur sinker 4 more movement!</p>— Dwight Gooden (@DocGooden16) <a href="

">April 24, 2014</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>You can blow in your hand for a better grip when it's cold... enough already!</p>— Dwight Gooden (@DocGooden16) <a href="

">April 24, 2014</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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As much as I agree with Gooden, I think what we've come across here is today's players/teams having found that a small judicious bit of pine tar for "grip" is acceptable to them, but when its being used so over the top and blatantly (as was the case with Pineda) that no other explanation but "he's trying to doctor the ball" can be used, they can't let that slide. Based on Farrel's comments, Buck's thoughts on using it when asked, etc, that seems to me what may be going on here. Of course a better grip will increase break, that's right down to the very physics that determine pitch effects in the first place. Just seems that somewhere along the line players and teams have decided that just enough for a pitchers hand to get a little tacky is acceptable to them. For whatever reason.

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