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What I think is bizarre in fan reaction is that I never hear anyone whining about Jayson Werth. He's a guy who's been a ML all-star, has an .835 lifetime OPS, plays a very good RF. We gave him up for a very non-descript pitcher who I don't even remember. I think the feeling was Werth was not going to be a player without a change of scenery. EdRod falls in that same category - considering his production the last year and a half he was here and quotes about his desire here.

It's interesting to look back at Werth in hindsight. He was traded after the 2000 season, his 4th year in our system (including the year he was drafted, in which he played in the GCL). I was fairly new to following our minor league players then, and didn't have the understanding of age vs. league age and how that interplays with performance that I have now. Werth had mediocre stats if you look at them in a vacuum, but when you consider his age, they weren't too bad at all:

1997 (age 18) : .830 OPS in GCL

1998 (age 19): .751 OPS in low A (ranked #52 by BA following this season)

1999 (age 20): .797 OPS in high A, .719 in AA (ranked #48 by BA following this season)

2000 (age 21): .733 OPS in high A, .716 in AA (unranked by BA following this season

I remember that the word on Werth at the time was that he had been a big disappointment, but judging his age/performance based on what I know now, I'd say that's a very solid performance, despite a bit of a setback season in 2000.

We traded him for John Bale, who at the time was 26 and had been a decent AAA pitcher who had struggled in some limited stints in the majors. Certainly a pretty awful trade knowing how Werth and Bale turned out, but frankly, it's awful even considering what they had done up to that time, especially considering that the O's were in rebuilding mode by then.

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It's interesting to look back at Werth in hindsight. He was traded after the 2000 season, his 4th year in our system (including the year he was drafted, in which he played in the GCL). I was fairly new to following our minor league players then, and didn't have the understanding of age vs. league age and how that interplays with performance that I have now. Werth had mediocre stats if you look at them in a vacuum, but when you consider his age, they weren't too bad at all:

1997 (age 18) : .830 OPS in GCL

1998 (age 19): .751 OPS in low A (ranked #52 by BA following this season)

1999 (age 20): .797 OPS in high A, .719 in AA (ranked #48 by BA following this season)

2000 (age 21): .733 OPS in high A, .716 in AA (unranked by BA following this season

I remember that the word on Werth at the time was that he had been a big disappointment, but judging his age/performance based on what I know now, I'd say that's a very solid performance, despite a bit of a setback season in 2000.

We traded him for John Bale, who at the time was 26 and had been a decent AAA pitcher who had struggled in some limited stints in the majors. Certainly a pretty awful trade knowing how Werth and Bale turned out, but frankly, it's awful even considering what they had done up to that time, especially considering that the O's were in rebuilding mode by then.

Wasn't part of the issue with Werth is that he disagreed with the O's development people who wanted to move him off Catcher?

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What I think is bizarre in fan reaction is that I never hear anyone whining about Jayson Werth. He's a guy who's been a ML all-star, has an .835 lifetime OPS, plays a very good RF. We gave him up for a very non-descript pitcher who I don't even remember. I think the feeling was Werth was not going to be a player without a change of scenery. EdRod falls in that same category - considering his production the last year and a half he was here and quotes about his desire here.

You don't get it? One trade happened 14 years ago and one happened a month ago. You expect to hear more about the one that happened 14 years ago. Werth was traded to the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays traded him in March of 2004 after he hadn't shown much with them. He didn't start to show anything until he got to the Dodgers that year and didn't really make a reputation for himself until he put in full seasons with the Phillies starting in 2007. So Werth was 6-7 years removed from us before he really made a name for himself. ERod was traded a month ago and his having his best 4 game stretch of the year. If he had pitched like this all year, it's safe to say that the O's wouldn't have traded him for Miller.

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Wasn't part of the issue with Werth is that he disagreed with the O's development people who wanted to move him off Catcher?

I think it's just the opposite. They wanted him to catch and he didn't want to.

Here's a good article. Sounds like they didn't think he would catch at the big league level and they didn't believe in his bat either.

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110107&content_id=16406786&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

Edited by RZNJ

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I think it's just the opposite. They wanted him to catch and he didn't want to.

Could be, I wasn't watching things closely then. Either way there was a disconnect between player and team. Those generally make the player more available.

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ERod was traded a month ago and his having his best 4 game stretch of the year. If he had pitched like this all year, it's safe to say that the O's wouldn't have traded him for Miller.

Exactly. That's why I'm frustrated. I've followed the guy for years, always liked him, and then he has been so inconsistent this year, right up to the moment he was traded, and then boom, it's like a light went off in his head. It's really annoying.

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Your source being?

"The 21-year-old, whose fastball (a pitch he?s used aggressively to both sides of the plate) has topped out at 96-97 mph in each of his starts with Portland, with flashes of a plus changeup and a slider, suffered his first loss with Portland, but after five starts, he?s 2-1 with a 0.86 ERA, 35 strikeouts (10.1 per nine innings) and just six walks (1.7 per nine) in 31 1/3 innings. He?s punched out at least seven in four of his five starts, while showing the athleticism to suggest an ability to repeat his delivery and attack the strike zone."

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2014/08/27/red-sox-minor-league-roundup-eduardo-rodriguezs-electrifying-first-impression-bryce-brentz-mashing-henry-owens-finding-his-way/

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Heck, if he's throwing that hard, you'd think that he could've done the job Miller's doing now.

Sounds like this one will come back to bite us in the future. Oh well...you know the Mariners feel that way every time we play them. Of course, we don't play them as much as we play the Sux.

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Heck, if he's throwing that hard, you'd think that he could've done the job Miller's doing now.

Sounds like this one will come back to bite us in the future. Oh well...you know the Mariners feel that way every time we play them. Of course, we don't play them as much as we play the Sux.

Eduardo throws 95. Unless they are doing short stints. He tops out at 95.

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Regarding Werth, this organization seemed to perennially run hot and cold on various players including, at times, Werth, Loewen and many others while still part of the organization. That several other teams passed on Werth and that his success came so far AFTER the Os gave up on him makes me less concerned about the organization's ability or inability to properly appraise the talent on hand.

After letting Hader, Jake and now EdRod go in the past year, and each seeming to do much better after leaving the organization (a bit premature on EdRod), one can start to think that other teams understood the value of our players better than our FO.

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Regarding Werth, this organization seemed to perennially run hot and cold on various players including, at times, Werth, Loewen and many others while still part of the organization. That several other teams passed on Werth and that his success came so far AFTER the Os gave up on him makes me less concerned about the organization's ability or inability to properly appraise the talent on hand.

After letting Hader, Jake and now EdRod go in the past year, and each seeming to do much better after leaving the organization (a bit premature on EdRod), one can start to think that other teams understood the value of our players better than our FO.

Or that we are a perennial winning team.

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After letting Hader, Jake and now EdRod go in the past year, and each seeming to do much better after leaving the organization (a bit premature on EdRod), one can start to think that other teams understood the value of our players better than our FO.

Or, that we were in "win now" mode and were willing to pay a pretty high price to improve our team for the stretch run. I put Arrieta in a different category than the other two because of the number of chances we had given him.

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Or, that we were in "win now" mode and were willing to pay a pretty high price to improve our team for the stretch run. I put Arrieta in a different category than the other two because of the number of chances we had given him.

I would also put Arrieta in a different category, but not just for the reason stated. I'm not convinced much has change for Jake. He is really struggling right now, and his success this year, while notable, seems to be short lived in my eyes.

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You don't get it? One trade happened 14 years ago and one happened a month ago. You expect to hear more about the one that happened 14 years ago. Werth was traded to the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays traded him in March of 2004 after he hadn't shown much with them. He didn't start to show anything until he got to the Dodgers that year and didn't really make a reputation for himself until he put in full seasons with the Phillies starting in 2007. So Werth was 6-7 years removed from us before he really made a name for himself. ERod was traded a month ago and his having his best 4 game stretch of the year. If he had pitched like this all year, it's safe to say that the O's wouldn't have traded him for Miller.

We were here 14 years ago. At least I was. And there wasn't this kind of outcry when he was traded. And Werth got an .853 OPS at age 22 in AA with 20 homers after the trade. How is that not showing anything? He played some in the majors the next season and did ok at age 23. How is that not at least on par with what EdRod's done? EdRod's played a few very good games, and people are going nuts. Now, if he really is hitting 97, then he is an impressive prospect, but from all accounts, he never approached that with the O's - and I'm not sure how anyone can think the O's should have seen that coming. That'd be an after the fact change in the prospect that could not have been foreseen, so you can't honestly use that in evaluating the trade.

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We were here 14 years ago. At least I was. And there wasn't this kind of outcry when he was traded. And Werth got an .853 OPS at age 22 in AA with 20 homers after the trade. How is that not showing anything? He played some in the majors the next season and did ok at age 23. How is that not at least on par with what EdRod's done? EdRod's played a few very good games, and people are going nuts. Now, if he really is hitting 97, then he is an impressive prospect, but from all accounts, he never approached that with the O's - and I'm not sure how anyone can think the O's should have seen that coming. That'd be an after the fact change in the prospect that could not have been foreseen, so you can't honestly use that in evaluating the trade.

I bet if we could dig up the threads, there was just as much discussion back then. Quite frankly, there hasn't been that much discussion about the ERod trade.

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