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Ricky Bobby

Roberts to the Cubs again?

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Play it that way, and there's a very strong chance you end up taking less 6 months or a year from now.

Dave do you think the Cubs would want to add Sherrill. What would be added to a deal such as Murton,Gallagher, & Cedeno?

Do you see a swap of Sherrill & Marmol possible. Would you likely see Veal added to the above or Veal & another guy.

Sorry if you've answered these questions been working today & I didn't want to read 11 + pges

Thanks

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Thanks Dave! Truth be told, I'd be very happy with that return. Unlike some of the other posters here, I covet Gallagher and Murton.

Hope that didn't sound too creepy. Haha. :D

Why? They are clearly the cream of the names that the Cubs seem to be offering, but how will they help what the Orioles are tying to do? Acquiring Gallagher and Murton would seem to be redundant, considering the other moves we have made. We have quite a few guys in the mix for the 4-5 spots in the rotation, Gallagher would add one more name to that list. With Nick, Jones, and Scott, Murton becomes the #4 OF. With Huff and Millar, DH/1B is covered until one or both is traded. We are very weak throughout the system in middle infield and this trade would exacerbate that problem. Who would lead off? We would be creating huge holes offensively and defensively, and not really filling anything. If anything, such a trade would only reduce the PT for the other prospects we've acquired and force us to DfA two more players from our 40-man.

Now, none of us know what McPhail has been discussing with various other GM's and perhaps he has a trade worked out sending one of the OF's and one of the SP's somewhere for a top SS or 2B prospect, or both; but on the surface the Cubs' rumored offers just don't seem to fit what we are tying to accomplish. Other teams seem to have a better fit as far as having major league ready prospects that appear to meet our needs.

By the same token, maybe the Cubs are offering a Hill, Pie, or Marmol in the package for Roberts and Hendry may well have another trade worked out to plug whatever hole that creates for the Cubs.

We just don't know what may be going on behind the scenes, but without another trade behind it, Roberts for Gallagher, Murton, plus one is not a deal McPhail should make IMO.

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Sounds like your talking in circles??? No disrespect here .. But Hendry obviously really wants Roberts or he would've given up the ghost long ago! Derosa is a good player ... I dont doubt that they would live without Roberts.

Sorry if it seemed like I was rambling. The point I was trying to convey was that Cub fans aren't undervaluing BRob, from our point of view it doesn't make sense to give up top prospects and guys that are supposed to contribute this year (Pie), to get a WANT rather than a NEED.

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Would Roberts for Gallagher' date=' Murton, Epat and Cedeno work?[/quote']

I would personally like to see Roberts and Sherrill for Gallagher, Murton, EPat, Cedeno, and Veal.

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Sorry if it seemed like I was rambling. The point I was trying to convey was that Cub fans aren't undervaluing BRob, from our point of view it doesn't make sense to give up top prospects and guys that are supposed to contribute this year (Pie), to get a WANT rather than a NEED.

I agree with you on 1 thing trading Pie. If he is the Cubs OD CF then he shouldnt expect AM to insist on him.

to get a WANT rather than a NEED
The only problem with this point of view is that Roberts is a All-Star 2B, Top 5 Lead off hitter. The Orioles shouldn't lower the price tag for the Cubs because of the point you've mentioned. The 2 teams may not be a good match with that being said. I think a deal could be made that benefits both IMO.

Murton,Gallagher, Cedeno, Marmol, & Veal for Roberts & Sherrill (If the Cubs dont want Sherrill then drop Marmol)

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I agree with you on 1 thing trading Pie. If he is the Cubs OD CF then he shouldnt expect AM to insist on him.

The only problem with this point of view is that Roberts is a All-Star 2B, Top 5 Lead off hitter. The Orioles shouldn't lower the price tag for the Cubs because of the point you've mentioned. The 2 teams may not be a good match with that being said. I think a deal could be made that benefits both IMO.

Murton,Gallagher, Cedeno, Marmol, & Veal for Roberts & Sherrill (If the Cubs dont want Sherrill then drop Marmol)

The Cubs would much rather have Marmol than Sherrill. Marmol was significantly better while pitching more innings, is younger, and under club control for an extra year longer.

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Why? They are clearly the cream of the names that the Cubs seem to be offering, but how will they help what the Orioles are tying to do? Acquiring Gallagher and Murton would seem to be redundant, considering the other moves we have made. We have quite a few guys in the mix for the 4-5 spots in the rotation, Gallagher would add one more name to that list. With Nick, Jones, and Scott, Murton becomes the #4 OF. With Huff and Millar, DH/1B is covered until one or both is traded. We are very weak throughout the system in middle infield and this trade would exacerbate that problem. Who would lead off? We would be creating huge holes offensively and defensively, and not really filling anything. If anything, such a trade would only reduce the PT for the other prospects we've acquired and force us to DfA two more players from our 40-man.

Now, none of us know what McPhail has been discussing with various other GM's and perhaps he has a trade worked out sending one of the OF's and one of the SP's somewhere for a top SS or 2B prospect, or both; but on the surface the Cubs' rumored offers just don't seem to fit what we are tying to accomplish. Other teams seem to have a better fit as far as having major league ready prospects that appear to meet our needs.

By the same token, maybe the Cubs are offering a Hill, Pie, or Marmol in the package for Roberts and Hendry may well have another trade worked out to plug whatever hole that creates for the Cubs.

We just don't know what may be going on behind the scenes, but without another trade behind it, Roberts for Gallagher, Murton, plus one is not a deal McPhail should make IMO.

Gallagher is quite possibly a number 2. These decisions need to be made for the long term. Cabrera/Millar/Huff/Gibbons/Payton are not the long term. They made need to be purged from the team even if it means DFA. Murton(25) is a better fit IMO than Scott(30) because of age. If Hendry is waiting for Sherrill from the Bedard deal to concede Marmol then that likely makes sense.

Robert & Sherrill for Murton,Gallagher, Cedeno , Marmol & a 5th (Veal??)

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Murton(25) is a better fit IMO than Scott(30) because of age.
To be fair, Murton is 26 all of next year while Scott won't be 30 until the end of June. Still a big age difference though.

Both have similar service time (2.055 for Murton, 1.144 for Scott), but I do think that by 2010 when we're ready to compete, having Murton at age 28 will probably be better than Scott at age 32. Might not be a huge difference though.

I'd trade whoever I could get more for in return, and it might be best to give both a lot of PT and then consider trading one either in July or next offseason.

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The only problem with this point of view is that Roberts is a All-Star 2B, Top 5 Lead off hitter. The Orioles shouldn't lower the price tag for the Cubs because of the point you've mentioned.

I couldn't agree more.

Murton,Gallagher, Cedeno, Marmol, & Veal for Roberts & Sherrill (If the Cubs dont want Sherrill then drop Marmol)

Plain and simple, I wouldn't include Marmol in any trade. My personal opinion. To be honest I haven't followed Sherrill, but to me, his innings pitched compared to his number of appearances suggests to me that he is a situational pitcher (73 G, 45.2IP in 07). So if you are basically saying Marmol for Sherrill straight up, no chance. Marmol is filthy, he probably has the best "stuff" on the entire staff.

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I couldn't agree more.

Plain and simple, I wouldn't include Marmol in any trade. My personal opinion. To be honest I haven't followed Sherrill, but to me, his innings pitched compared to his number of appearances suggests to me that he is a situational pitcher (73 G, 45.2IP in 07). So if you are basically saying Marmol for Sherrill straight up, no chance. Marmol is filthy, he probably has the best "stuff" on the entire staff.

No doubt about it. Marmol has the nastiest stuff I've seen since Wood's 20 K game.

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The Cubs would much rather have Marmol than Sherrill. Marmol was significantly better while pitching more innings, is younger, and under club control for an extra year longer.

Yes, I'm sure that the Cubs would much rather keep all of their valuable players, but in trying to get something, you really need to be willing to give something. If either team is unwilling to give something that the other team wants or needs, then there can be no trade. We know that you are willing to trade some spare parts for an All-Star, but trades like that rarely happen.

This has been a recurring theme in all of these "Roberts to the Cubs" threads. The players that the Cubs are rumored to be offering just don't match up with what the Orioles are trying to do, and the players that the Orioles are rumored to be willing to accept for Roberts are not players that the Cubs are willing to trade. Bad fit.

It is not really a matter of either GM "caving," but rather whether one, or both, of them can find a way (perhaps through another trade) to make something work for both teams.

Frankly, my concern in all of this is McPhail's ties to the Cubs and the possibility that he might overvalue some of the Cubs players being offered. I'd like to think that he would explore other possible trade partners, such as Cleveland, before agreeing to a Cubs offer.

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Yes, I'm sure that the Cubs would much rather keep all of their valuable players, but in trying to get something, you really need to be willing to give something. If either team is unwilling to give something that the other team wants or needs, then there can be no trade. We know that you are willing to trade some spare parts for an All-Star, but trades like that rarely happen.

This has been a recurring theme in all of these "Roberts to the Cubs" threads. The players that the Cubs are rumored to be offering just don't match up with what the Orioles are trying to do, and the players that the Orioles are rumored to be willing to accept for Roberts are not players that the Cubs are willing to trade. Bad fit.

It is not really a matter of either GM "caving," but rather whether one, or both, of them can find a way (perhaps through another trade) to make something work for both teams.

Frankly, my concern in all of this is McPhail's ties to the Cubs and the possibility that he might overvalue some of the Cubs players being offered. I'd like to think that he would explore other possible trade partners, such as Cleveland, before agreeing to a Cubs offer.

The reason for this is simple. Roberts' value to the Cubs is diminished because while he is a better player than DeRosa, he isn't a massive upgrade. So Roberts overall value is worth more than his value to the Cubs because they already have a decent fallback plan. They won't pay as much as other clubs would because its not as desperate a need.

I do think that Hendry and Piniella might have a bit of a crush on Roberts and would be willing to deal more than they otherwise would/should, but I still don't think we'll get a premiere package from Chicago for Roberts.

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Yes, I'm sure that the Cubs would much rather keep all of their valuable players, but in trying to get something, you really need to be willing to give something. If either team is unwilling to give something that the other team wants or needs, then there can be no trade. We know that you are willing to trade some spare parts for an All-Star, but trades like that rarely happen.

This has been a recurring theme in all of these "Roberts to the Cubs" threads. The players that the Cubs are rumored to be offering just don't match up with what the Orioles are trying to do, and the players that the Orioles are rumored to be willing to accept for Roberts are not players that the Cubs are willing to trade. Bad fit.

It is not really a matter of either GM "caving," but rather whether one, or both, of them can find a way (perhaps through another trade) to make something work for both teams.

Frankly, my concern in all of this is McPhail's ties to the Cubs and the possibility that he might overvalue some of the Cubs players being offered. I'd like to think that he would explore other possible trade partners, such as Cleveland, before agreeing to a Cubs offer.

I was responding to the rather explicit "if the Cubs don't want Sherrill then drop Marmol" comment. Johnny seems to value Sherrill more, whereas I was merely pointing out that the Cubs wouldn't do a one-for-one swap of the two players. If Johnny were demanding that swap be included in his trade proposal, I wouldn't have felt such a need to point out that the Cubs wouldn't agree to the optional part of the swap.

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