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2/23 Terps vs. Canes/ Gary Williams' status debate

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People had the expectation that the NC would get us up to that level.

I've always viewed us as more of a Mich St, Connecticut, Syracuse, or Arizona type program rather than the UNC, Duke, Kentucky, or UCLA type program. It'll take a lot more than 2 trips to the final 4 to get to being one of the elite programs in NCAA history, but it doesn't take much more than that to be one of the elite programs of a generation. We were right there, but we've clearly taken a step back since the NC, certainly some of that blame goes to Gary, but also there were very clearly some weird things going on with some of the classes that he couldn't have foreseen.

The big test will be over the next 2-3 seasons if we can get back to where we were in the few years before the NC.

Syracuse i can see.....Maybe Arizona...Not sure about UCONN or MSU though...I would put MD below them.

MD is a very good program but let's face it, for the most part, the top top guys aren't choosing MD over the elite programs. So, Maryland has to go for that next tier and they have done a good job finding some of those type guys.

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Vasquez is never going to be an elite PG. I love the way he can slash and score in the lane. But he shouldn't be handling the ball. That experiment is past time to end.

Amen, John.

I don't know if I can take watching this team with him at point for much longer.

I don't know if it's because I played point or what, but he is everything a PG should not be. Awful decision making that can longer be considred "brain farts" (this is who he is and will be) and just as bad in my book, a shoot first mentality. Turnover problems and wanting to score instead of set-up your teammates are fatal point guard flaws to me. A team will never have sustained and consistent success with a PG like that.

And before everyone jumps on me about bashing GV, please let me state that I am happy he is on the team and think he can really contribute much. Just not at the point. Way too unstable and does not have the right mindset. He can be a good 2 (great at the Dixon curl and hitting the midrange floater when going right) who fills up the stat sheet. The quicker he is moved there the better off he, and all of us (I might not have any hair left if he keeps playing the position), will be.

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I think part of the problem some on here are having is that they expect MD to be Duke or UNC. One NC doesn't make you a program at that level.

I agree with what you're saying, but the expectations at MD should be very, very high.

We play in the best conference in college basketball. We've got a brand new, state of the art arena. Located in arguably the best hotbed for basketball players in the country.

MD, at one point, was one of the elite programs in the country. If more than one team from each conference was always allowed to go the the NCAA tourney, who knows how many more Final 4s and championships MD might have.

IMO, there is no reason why MD should not be right up there with the best of the best. I do not think 3 NIT years (which is far from being a sure thing yet) should be acceptable.

I do not think Gary is invincible -- there are always things people will disagree with him on. My problem with his critics is that they think a few supbar years should carry more weight than decades of coaching success.

I think Mackus put it best -- you can be unhappy with where the program is right now and still think Gary is the best guy to get it going again.

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I agree with what you're saying, but the expectations at MD should be very, very high.

We play in the best conference in college basketball. We've got a brand new, state of the art arena. Located in arguably the best hotbed for basketball players in the country.

MD, at one point, was one of the elite programs in the country. If more than one team from each conference was always allowed to go the the NCAA tourney, who knows how many more Final 4s and championships MD might have.

IMO, there is no reason why MD should not be right up there with the best of the best. I do not think 3 NIT years (which is far from being a sure thing yet) should be acceptable.

I do not think Gary is invincible -- there are always things people will disagree with him on. My problem with his critics is that they think a few supbar years should carry more weight than decades of coaching success.

I think Mackus put it best -- you can be unhappy with where the program is right now and still think Gary is the best guy to get it going again.

Exactly. With the assets we have we have every right to expect to be a top 10 program. Elite, probably not, but certainly in the next tier and on par with anyone in the country not named UNC, DUke or Kentucky. The one thing I'm convinced of is this program hasn't reached it's potential. Yes, we had a team of players who reached the peak for a couple of years, culminating in the NC, but as a program there is room left to grow.

I also hope Gary is the guy who gets us going again. Again, he is a fighter and I do believe he will get things turned around and improve on the last 4 or 5 years. However, I do have my doubts that Gary is the guy who can take the program to that next level and max the program's potential.

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Doesn't even have them as one of his last four in, either. Which is surprising. I figured he' still have us in but as one of the last four. Either way, the margin for error is razor thin.

He had them as an 8th seed the other day though...That is a big drop in less than a week.

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Well it helps that other teams that are right around Maryland, maybe a bit below, didn't take advantage of this week. That's why as bad as it was, and it was bad, it wasn't a killer. Maryland still controls their own fates. How they respond to that though, is anyone's guess.

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Ok, so what I meant was that Hayes was doomed here from the start because he can't run the curl at the foul line which is just about the only play we run right now and can't create his own shot against more physical, ACC players. I'm saying that guys like JJ, Paulus, Scheyer, etc. weren't the most physical players in the world either and couldn't really get off their own shots but were still very successful because the system they played in got them open looks. If you know that your system can't create open looks for anyone and doesn't rely on the three-pointer at all, why recruit a guy like Hayes, who all he can do is shoot?

In the right system, Hayes would be a pretty good shooter and scorer. In our system, he's worthless.

Have you not noticed the dozens of times Hayes gets the ball only to pump fake and not put up a shot because he won't shoot the ball? JJ Redick scored was the all-time leading scorer in the ACC. As much as I might hate him, he came into college with an ability to create his own shot that was infinitely better than Hayes. Scheyer was the same way, albeit not in the class of Redick. Paulus is a good comparison, and his numbers are fairly similar to Hayes. And all three of those guys are more aggressive in looking for their shot than Hayes is.

The reason he was brought in was to be a point guard. A year later we got Vasquez and as it turns out Hayes was no longer the point guard of the future. Still doesn't make him "worthless".

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