Jump to content
Cubsfan21

O's deciding what picthers they want for Roberts?

Recommended Posts

I've read most of the posts you've made since you've come to this board. I've got to tell you that, IMHO, you started really well but have become extremely condescending as time has gone on. When do you think you'll be tired of us silly little hangouters that don't take everything into account? It doesn't appear the trade is going to happen. You're clearly sure we're all deluded and, as I'm sure someone of your vast experience and intelligence knows, you can't tell a deluded person anything so it is a waste to try. You've got a team to support and a board to do it on. When do you expect to move on down the road? I'm just curious.

I came to the board expecting mature discussion and quickly have been thrown into childish junk like "you meant to go to the pre-teen board" and "In a word, [you lied or are mistaken]," posters asking me to leave since I'm not biased towards the O's, amongst all the rest of the dismissive attitudes I've encountered, etc. When a poster is level-headed and objective, I absolutely am too. It's funny how when you're attacked your tone changes, isn't it? I have not done anything of the sort unprovoked by people trying to start trouble and have tried to avoid it - such as why I'll just ignore RZNJ now that I see he's not interested in baseball discussion.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't offer any definitive proof for two reasons.

1. I'm too lazy to do the research.

2. The best proof will be the actual trade between the Cubs & Orioles.

This post made me chuckle because of your honesty and the simpleness of your second point. In all seriousness, thank you for keeping this in perspective.

The debate here is fun and sometimes a little tense, but this Cub fan will tell you I plan to pay more attention to the O's and OH during the regular season because of this site. I hope no one here minds.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd like someone to complete this statement for me.

"There will be better offers for Roberts. Just look at what (fill in team) got in return for (fill in Roberts-caliber player)."

I haven't seen even one example be offered in support of the common argument that Roberts is, or will ever be, worth more than the Cubs packages being bandied about now.

I've seen lots of examples that refute the notion, however: Edgar Renteria from this year; Luis Castillo from a couple years ago; the recent historical record of trade deadline deals that Rob H pulled together.

Someone convince me there's any semblance of evidence to back the "better offers will come" theory.

I agree that you can't be convinced, Dave. Your evaluation of the Cubs players rumored to have been offered is simply higher than most Oriole fans' evaluations of those players, from what I've seen. This is the case regardless of whose opinion might be closer to the opinions of most professional baseball people. There is no right or wrong here. In view of this basic difference of opinion, such convincing is a virtual impossibility.

The only example I can give you that Roberts is worth more than what's been offered is the fact that the offers have not been accepted. There are other indications that the Orioles and their fans are not alone in their views, such as the Texas rejection of the Murton-for-Byrd deal, but again, that is a difference of opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree that you can't be convinced, Dave. Your evaluation of the Cubs players rumored to have been offered is simply higher than most Oriole fans' evaluations of those players, from what I've seen. This is the case regardless of whose opinion might be closer to the opinions of most professional baseball people. There is no right or wrong here. In view of this basic difference of opinion, such convincing is a virtual impossibility.

The only example I can give you that Roberts is worth more than what's been offered is the fact that the offers have not been accepted. There are other indications that the Orioles and their fans are not alone in their views, such as the Texas rejection of the Murton-for-Byrd deal, but again, that is a difference of opinion.

Cedeno and Murton clearly have a lot less value than Cubs fans think they have....There is no doubt about that.

That doesn't take anything away from those 2 guys but it is how the Cubs have handled them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So if your AM which pitchers would you select? From the ones being rumored. Gallagher is a given.

To be honest, i would take Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno.....If they take back Payton, even better.

So, if we could get Ceda or Veal or Colvin or someone like that as the 4th player, great.

I would be fine with EPat as the 4th player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you know what the so called laughable offer is please tell us so we could agree or not.Gallegher is not laughable he is in my opinion no worse than a 3 starter the kid has moved up quick through the system and has pitched well.If Murton is in the deal he is no joke either.If you know the offer please fill us in.Remember am said the orioles are rebuilding so that means he wants young players he thinks have a chance to succed in the bigs like he said they are prospects nothing more nothing less.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cedeno and Murton clearly have a lot less value than Cubs fans think they have....There is no doubt about that.

That doesn't take anything away from those 2 guys but it is how the Cubs have handled them.

That may be true. But IMO Roberts has less value then O's fans think as well.

Personally I hope the Cubs keep Murton. He is s very good hitter. If Pie struggles the Cubs could move Fukudome to center and play Murton in right.

I would rather made the deal with Gallagher and Cedeno and then a propsect or two (depending on the prospects)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be honest, i would take Gallagher, Murton and Cedeno.....If they take back Payton, even better.

So, if we could get Ceda or Veal or Colvin or someone like that as the 4th player, great.

I would be fine with EPat as the 4th player.

I agree with SG here. I would take Gallagher, Murton, Cedeno and Ceda/Veal/Colvin/EPat. But only if they are taking back Payton. The Cubs could choose among those 4 who the 4th player is. No problem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Being the face of the organization does not increase your trade value. The right way is to made a fair deal that will benefit both teams.

It does increase his value to the Orioles. (Or at least the media friendliness, clubhouse popularity and community involvement do). It may not make another team offer more (depending on whether that other team puts a premium on character traits), but it certainly will make the Orioles require more to let him go than they would for a player with the same stats who was a clubhouse cancer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So if your AM which pitchers would you select? From the ones being rumored. Gallagher is a given.

1. Gallagher

2. Ceda

3. Veal

4. Marshall

I'd have to see what other names have been mentioned to rank them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That may be true. But IMO Roberts has less value then O's fans think as well.

Personally I hope the Cubs keep Murton. He is s very good hitter. If Pie struggles the Cubs could move Fukudome to center and play Murton in right.

I would rather made the deal with Gallagher and Cedeno and then a propsect or two (depending on the prospects)

Chances of Cub fans & Oriole fans agreeing on the prospects are slim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who is a better prospect Veal or Ceda? Sickel has Veal over Ceda. Should I not but stock in Sickels grading?

All of the lists are not foolproof. Baseball America has Ceda above Veal. Who turns out to be right? Who knows. Ceda absolutely dominated after being switched to the pen but it was low A ball. However, the domination was so absolute that I would rank him higher. I would only rank Veal higher if I though he might stick as a starter, and I don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That may be true. But IMO Roberts has less value then O's fans think as well.

Personally I hope the Cubs keep Murton. He is s very good hitter. If Pie struggles the Cubs could move Fukudome to center and play Murton in right.

I would rather made the deal with Gallagher and Cedeno and then a propsect or two (depending on the prospects)

This is a slippery slope here.

Roberts is definitely one of the best all around 2 baggers in the game...There is no doubt about that.

However, second baseman are the red headed step child of the major leagues. They definitely don't have as much value as most, if not all, positions.

Its kind of tough to tell what BRob's value truly is IMO. I don't think any of us know.

However, one thing you need to understand is that BRob is a fan favorite and a lot of fans have the attitude of you only trade him if the deal is very good...The Cubs offer isn't very good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 98 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






×
×
  • Create New...