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Bigbie03

Sun-Times says O's want Cedeno, Gallagher, and 2 more prospects

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No, Ken Kravec was at the game. The Cubs "special assistant to the general manager". Hence, "little Hendry"

I bet you don't know how many guys hold the title "special assistant to the general manager" with the Cubs.

And FYI, Gary Hughes would be the closest thing Hendry has to a righthand man.

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I bet you don't know how many guys hold the title "special assistant to the general manager" with the Cubs.

And FYI, Gary Hughes would be the closest thing Hendry has to a righthand man.

Ok, well to be honest, you had two guys at the field looking at Roberts. The point remains the same.

But thanks for the clarification.

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I hope that the bolded part of that statement is not actually the reason that the Orioles don't want Murton. And it's not like Murton is very expensive either. So if the Orioles need to eat Gibby's salary they should do it. Otherwise, this is akin to compounding a mistake with another mistake. With that type of thinking, this team will never compete.

Hey, if PA agrees to this,fine by me. It isn't my money! :) Gibbons gets over $11M over the next two years. That is a lot to eat. I just don't know that we can realistically expect that to happen.

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Hey, if PA agrees to this,fine by me. It isn't my money! :) Gibbons gets over $11M over the next two years. That is a lot to eat. I just don't know that we can realistically expect that to happen.

I've never really understood this whole thinking, but then again its not my money (as you said). If Gibbons sucks a month or so after he is back from his suspension then just let him go, pay him and let him go.

I mean if he stinks then its one of two things:

1. You pay him $11 million to play a few days a week and not do anything for the team.

2. You pay him $11 million to not be anywhere near the team and the player who replaces him puts up better numbers.

I'll take number 2.

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Guest oriofan8
I've never really understood this whole thinking, but then again its not my money (as you said). If Gibbons sucks a month or so after he is back from his suspension then just let him go, pay him and ket let him go.

I mean if he stinks then its one of two things:

1. You pay him $11 million to play a few days a week and not do anything for the team.

2. You pay him $11 million to not be anywhere near the team and the player who replaces him puts up better numbers.

I'll take number 2.

Absolutely agree...I felt that way last season...you've spent the $$ already anyway. Good post.

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Absolutely agree...I felt that way last season...you've spent the $$ already anyway. Good post.

Not only that but maybe some other sad team gives him a shot and we get to see him a few ABs a season ;).

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This is simply not the truth and the more you say it the more it seems you're intentionally disingenuous. Why do you still insist that the Cubs have no confidence Murton could produce and what exactly is this "expected level" anyway? Signing Soriano--and him then "requiring" left--is far from a lack of confidence in Murton. In fact, even handedness comes into play before expectation.

If Murton is going to produce at an ops of 850, there's not a team in MLB that would fail to get him into the lineup.

As it it, Murton's already burned some service time as well.

I never said he was a bad ballplayer. I've said he's an average one. That may or may not be better than several guys on our roster, but that's not important to me. Murton is not enough of a sure thing to produce offensively that he's worth taking a chance on in the BRob deals we've discussed.

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Ok, well to be honest, you had two guys at the field looking at Roberts. The point remains the same.

But thanks for the clarification.

It's not immediately clear what your point is, however what is certain is that Hendry has been prepared to trade for Roberts, sight unseen, since the first week of December in Nashville.

It's not as though the Cubs are playing some wait-and-see game here involving letting their scouts check out Brian Roberts in ST games to make sure he makes the grade. The Cubs never wanted things to drag out this long in the first place.

So your notion that Ken Kravec's whereabouts shed any sort of light on anything at all is pretty farfetched. As was said back in post #251, the Cubs have scouts here and there around Arizona and Florida, looking at any number of teams and players.

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Player A

level PA OPS age

....A 397 843 20

...A+ 401 849 21

...AA 143 993 21

.MLB 542 799 22

.MLB 710 847 23

Player B

level PA OPS age

....A 546 727 18

...A+ 450 800 19

...AA 262 903 20

.AAA 623 792 21

.AAA 250 973 22

Player C

level PA OPS age

...A+ 504 834 22

...AA 203 930 23

Player D

level PA OPS age

....A 543 715 18

...A+ 315 868 19

...AA 257 826 20

..AAA 416 829 20

..AAA 469 968 21

Player E

level PA OPS age

...A+ 505 799 22

...AA 350 901 23

..MLB 508 809 24

..AAA 172 977 25

..MLB 261 790 25

Player A = Markakis

Player B = Pie

Player C = Reimold

Player D = Jones

Player E = Murton

I didn't list these 5 players to say that they are comparable. I just wanted to briefly post their stats where they could be seen side by side.

It's easy to see why Markakis, Pie and Jones were/are seen as top notch prospects. For the most part, they have each travelled through the minors relatively quickly and improved along the way. Markakis has of course already proven himself in the majors with two solid seasons.

Maybe it is useful to compare Reimold (player c) and Murton (player e). They were both college players. Reimold was drafted in the early 2nd round from Bowling Green. Murton was drafted at pick 32 in the first round from Georgia Tech. They put up very similar OPS stats at A+ and AA at the same age.

However, Reimold will be starting this year at AAA in his age 24 season. Meanwhile, at age 24, Murton essentially skipped AAA (he played 9 games there at age 23) and put up an 809 OPS in the majors.

One year later, through age 25, Murton has already accumulated 929 PA in the majors, posting a cumulative 820 OPS. I think that we would be pretty happy (maybe even ecstatic) if Reimold can accumulate nearly as many MLB PA with a similar OPS over these next two years, his age 24 and 25 seasons. (For reference, Markakis has put up a cumulative 826 OPS over his first two full seasons, over 1252 PA. Granted, he did this at age 22 and 23, instead of 24 and 25 like Murton.)

In sum, I would say that Murton has been a better player than Reimold thus far and will probably have a better major league career than him when all is said and done. Sure, we can point to injuries stalling Reimold to an extent, but hey, that's part of the equation. And while I don't pretend to say that Murton is the offensive player that Markakis is or will be, it is a bit surprising that their career OPS thus far is very similar.

Yet many here seem to regard Murton as an average player, or even a throwaway in any possible Roberts deal. However, I would say that if you said that the Cubs were offering a player that was similar to Nolan Reimold or even better, that we would not dismiss him so easily.

I would also say that many here would agree that the Orioles should target players that are blocked or are buy low candidates. Again, I would say that Murton fulfills these criteria.

I would also say that Murton has shown a pretty good ability to control the strike zone in his brief MLB career (830 AB, 87 BB, 123 K). Considering how the Orioles have lacked hitters that exhibit plate discipline over the years, I think we can appreciate this quality.

He also mashes LHP (another seemingly annual Oriole weakness) to the tune of a .909 OPS while holding his own against RHP (.771 OPS).

Just my opinon.

Disclaimer: Now I have never actually seen him play, so if someone wants to say that he is a butcher in the outfield or that he is slower than their grandma, fine. But all reports that I've read say that he is at least an average fielder with average speed, but that he does have a weak arm.

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You can certainly make a case for Murton. I think most people would say that Reimold has more upside but Murton is a much safer bet to be at least an average ML LF. The question is, has Murton already tapped into all of his talent? He started his ML career off with a bang and has declined slightly the last two years, although he had a strong 2nd half last year. I guess I could go either way on him. Let's say I wouldn't be unhappy if we got him back in the deal. The more I look at him (his 2nd half last year) the more I might start coming down on his side of the fence.

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Not to add more fuel to the fire, but why do the Cubs need to have someone watching Roberts? Don't they know who he is and what he can do? Are we sure the deal might not be bigger then thought? Maybe he was scouting another player on the O's. IMO the deal will be made for Roberts, but I find it curious that the Cubs needed two scouts at the Orioles game just to look at Roberts.

FWIW, as a Cubs fan I would do either deal I have been hearing lately. Either Gallagher, Cedeno and Patterson for Roberts or Gallagher, Cedeno, Veal and Fontenot for Roberts would get the deal done, IMO. If the Orioles wanted to throw in Payton as well, I would take him. But I wouldn't give up another ballplayer. Taking on his salary is enough of an advantage to the O's. No need to add a player.

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It's not immediately clear what your point is, however what is certain is that Hendry has been prepared to trade for Roberts, sight unseen, since the first week of December in Nashville.

It's not as though the Cubs are playing some wait-and-see game here involving letting their scouts check out Brian Roberts in ST games to make sure he makes the grade. The Cubs never wanted things to drag out this long in the first place.

So your notion that Ken Kravec's whereabouts shed any sort of light on anything at all is pretty farfetched. As was said back in post #251, the Cubs have scouts here and there around Arizona and Florida, looking at any number of teams and players.

I don't think it is far fetched at all. They were there looking at Roberts. My point was that the trade was very much still alive. This proves my point. Every team has scouts that go around and look at talent. The Orioles are doing the same thing. It is not that the Cubs have this advanced idea to send their scouts all over to get info, everyone does it.

The poster I was talking to said that the trade was done, it wasn't going to happen. But I find it funny that you guys just happened to have scouts at our first game, as well as us throwing a bunch of scouts towards your minor league camp as well.

Seems like the trade is far from dead to me. And that was my point.

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Not to add more fuel to the fire, but why do the Cubs need to have someone watching Roberts? Don't they know who he is and what he can do? Are we sure the deal might not be bigger then thought? Maybe he was scouting another player on the O's. IMO the deal will be made for Roberts, but I find it curious that the Cubs needed two scouts at the Orioles game just to look at Roberts.

FWIW, as a Cubs fan I would do either deal I have been hearing lately. Either Gallagher, Cedeno and Patterson for Roberts or Gallagher, Cedeno, Veal and Fontenot for Roberts would get the deal done, IMO. If the Orioles wanted to throw in Payton as well, I would take him. But I wouldn't give up another ballplayer. Taking on his salary is enough of an advantage to the O's. No need to add a player.

Why wouldn't they look at the guy they are looking to trade for if it is available to them?

Are you kidding? Do you think that the Cubs are sitting around saying "Nah, we don't have to go take a look at Roberts, we know what kinda shape he is in this year, and since we saw him last year, we know what we would be getting"... That is foolish.

I am not saying the Cubs are scouting him because they need to gather all of this information on him because this is a new development in the trade.

If you were buying a car and you knew which kinda car you were going to get, wouldn't you still want to test drive it? I know I would.

It is called doing your homework.

I don't think this scouting session would be some epiphany to your front office. They know what they would be getting with Roberts, but they want to make sure it is what they remembered from last year too.

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