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The This Team IS Done, We are Dumb and Nothing can Fix it MEGA THREAD

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So you think Cruz is going to hit about 60 home runs this year? You thought before this season that Cruz would be even better than last year when he put up an .859 OPS with a career high 40 home runs?

I thought he would do as well as least year, maybe a tad better. Not to the level he is now, but even if he was what I expected, that makes him well worth his contract.

I called him an elite talent. Elite. Most laughed at me when I said that. Not so funny now.

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I thought he would do as well as least year, maybe a tad better. Not to the level he is now, but even if he was what I expected, that makes him well worth his contract.

I called him an elite talent. Elite. Most laughed at me when I said that. Not so funny now.

I thought his bat would be missed in the middle of the lineup. I was okay at 3/45 contract. I could have gone either way on the 4th year but I was okay with letting him walk over the 4th year. He was great in the first part of last year, at the end of the year, and in the playoffs. He had a long dry spell in the middle of the year. You can crow all you want but last year was a career year at age 33. What he's doing now was not expected and couldn't have been predicted. We weren't good enough to win the whole thing with Miller and Cruz.

As far as being worth his contract. It's 45 days into a 4 year deal.

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I thought his bat would be missed in the middle of the lineup. I was okay at 3/45 contract. I could have gone either way on the 4th year but I was okay with letting him walk over the 4th year. He was great in the first part of last year, at the end of the year, and in the playoffs. He had a long dry spell in the middle of the year. You can crow all you want but last year was a career year at age 33. What he's doing now was not expected and couldn't have been predicted. We weren't good enough to win the whole thing with Miller and Cruz.

As far as being worth his contract. It's 45 days into a 4 year deal.

Well the thing is, we were not good enough at the end of last year WITH Miller and Cruz, but lets not forget that if you add those two in, PLUS Machado, Davis, Wieters, and a good RF? This is a championship team imo.

Imagine a team of:

Machado

Cruz

Davis

Hardy

Wieters

Schoop

Quality RF

Jones

Pearce

Yes, payroll would be up this year no doubt. But next year you are losing a bunch of players to help offset that, plus with an expected Sept pennant chase and a hoped for playoff run, the increased revenue from attendance and concessions would more than make up for the increase. By all accounts it was the time to go for it.

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Well the thing is, we were not good enough at the end of last year WITH Miller and Cruz, but lets not forget that if you add those two in, PLUS Machado, Davis, Wieters, and a good RF? This is a championship team imo.

Imagine a team of:

Machado

Cruz

Davis

Hardy

Wieters

Schoop

Quality RF

Jones

Pearce

Yes, payroll would be up this year no doubt. But next year you are losing a bunch of players to help offset that, plus with an expected Sept pennant chase and a hoped for playoff run, the increased revenue from attendance and concessions would more than make up for the increase. By all accounts it was the time to go for it.

Yeah, I get it. Again, you can make the case that this year was the year to go for it and with players coming off the payroll next year we could easily handel the Cruz and Miller salary. Still, keeping those two and getting your imaginary quality RF still doesn't guarantee anything it's easy to judge the Miller and Cruz deals after 45 days as a success. Anyway. It's done. We've been through this many times. The posters who were strongest for keeping Cruz and Miller look good right now. However, all posters knew that we'd be better with both Cruz and Miller this year. It was all about the length of the contracts and the future impact. Pretty hard to argue that side of it 45 days into the contracts.

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I am just not sure how this team expected to with guys like De Aza, Lough, Snider, Joseph etc playing large parts of the season. Yes they are all good short term plug ins, but none of these guys can help a team throughout an entire year. This is what I mean when I say I think DD cost this team in a huge way by what happened with Toronto. I don't care what anyone says. Put it this way, if you were working at XYZ company and got offered a job at ABC company that you really wanted, with higher pay and more responsibility.....would your heart be 100% in doing your job at XYZ? And if you were prohibited from taking this new job by the owners at XYZ, would you feel resentment and probably not be 100% committed to your old job? Of course you would. Its human nature.

What happened this off season was a travesty because not only did it create a lot of hard feelings at the warehouse, but it cost this team THIS YEAR. This was the year guys. This was the year to win it all. And we gave up.

I am just not sure how this team expected to with guys like McLouth, Ford, Quintanilla, Teagarden, Andino, Flaherty, Endy Chavez, etc playing large parts of the season. Yes they are all good short term plug ins, but none of these guys can help a team throughout an entire year. This is what I mean when I say I think DD cost this team in a huge way by thinking he could come in after a decade out of the game. I don't care what anyone says. Put it this way, if you were out of your industry for a decade would you have any hope of landing a top job? Of course not. There's a reason nobody wanted you.

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I know there's a ton of hyperbole in this thread (mostly the negative kind, but some of the pushback is over-the-top too), but I think we can all agree that the O's are causing pretty much all of us a lot of emotional pain right now.

Now some specifics: I would have signed Cruz for that contract. Yes, he would have been very overpaid in the last year, maybe even last two years, but that's true of most free agents. I would not have signed Miller to the contract he got. He's great. Right now. Plenty of data showing that big free agent deals for relievers are, on average, very bad ideas. But as several has said, this is all water under the bridge. In fact, I don't think Cruz would have made much difference at this point. The O's may have won two or three games more than they have at this point and that is with a red hot Cruz. Cruz was red hot to start last year and the O's still struggled out of the gate. As many have said in this and other threads, it is all about the starting pitching. Norris and Tilman have stunk and the other starters not named Ubaldo have been erratic. Until the O's have three starters that are clicking then they will continue to struggle. Defense and hitting needs to improve, but unless the starters get better when are in for a long season.

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I know there's a ton of hyperbole in this thread (mostly the negative kind, but some of the pushback is over-the-top too), but I think we can all agree that the O's are causing pretty much all of us a lot of emotional pain right now.

Now some specifics: I would have signed Cruz for that contract. Yes, he would have been very overpaid in the last year, maybe even last two years, but that's true of most free agents. I would not have signed Miller to the contract he got. He's great. Right now. Plenty of data showing that big free agent deals for relievers are, on average, very bad ideas. But as several has said, this is all water under the bridge. In fact, I don't think Cruz would have made much difference at this point. The O's may have won two or three games more than they have at this point and that is with a red hot Cruz. Cruz was red hot to start last year and the O's still struggled out of the gate. As many have said in this and other threads, it is all about the starting pitching. Norris and Tilman have stunk and the other starters not named Ubaldo have been erratic. Until the O's have three starters that are clicking then they will continue to struggle. Defense and hitting needs to improve, but unless the starters get better when are in for a long season.

It's not about what ifs and maybes. Nelson Cruz gives this team a better chance to win every night he plays over anyone that plays LF, RF, or DH and the fact that they felt comfortable with letting him walk based off one possibly bad year at the end of the contract and because they had Pearce/Snider to make up for the lose is idiotic.

Also that they felt Wieters, Machado, and Davis would make Cruz seem not as important as he actually was.

Davis, mainly by the FO, is way overrated and overvalued. Machado is starting to get to be what is expected other than some errors defensively this early.

And if they really expected and were counting on Wieters being ready for opening day or even a month into this season, they are way past any mental deficiencies known to man.

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It's not about what ifs and maybes. Nelson Cruz gives this team a better chance to win every night he plays over anyone that plays LF, RF, or DH and the fact that they felt comfortable with letting him walk based off one possibly bad year at the end of the contract and because they had Pearce/Snider to make up for the lose is idiotic.

Also that they felt Wieters, Machado, and Davis would make Cruz seem not as important as he actually was.

Davis, mainly by the FO, is way overrated and overvalued. Machado is starting to get to be what is expected other than some errors defensively this early.

And if they really expected and were counting on Wieters being ready for opening day or even a month into this season, they are way past any mental deficiencies known to man.

That isn't remotely accurate.

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I know there's a ton of hyperbole in this thread (mostly the negative kind, but some of the pushback is over-the-top too), but I think we can all agree that the O's are causing pretty much all of us a lot of emotional pain right now.

Now some specifics: I would have signed Cruz for that contract. Yes, he would have been very overpaid in the last year, maybe even last two years, but that's true of most free agents. I would not have signed Miller to the contract he got. He's great. Right now. Plenty of data showing that big free agent deals for relievers are, on average, very bad ideas. But as several has said, this is all water under the bridge. In fact, I don't think Cruz would have made much difference at this point. The O's may have won two or three games more than they have at this point and that is with a red hot Cruz. Cruz was red hot to start last year and the O's still struggled out of the gate. As many have said in this and other threads, it is all about the starting pitching. Norris and Tilman have stunk and the other starters not named Ubaldo have been erratic. Until the O's have three starters that are clicking then they will continue to struggle. Defense and hitting needs to improve, but unless the starters get better when are in for a long season.

You're starting at a losing position when you say that about a 4 year contract. That makes sense on a six or eight year deal, but 50% of the deal being looked at as a throw away before its signed is a bit much. Also, with the reaction here to the backend of the Roberts and Markakis contracts, you expect me to believe the debbie downers would be ok with paying Cruz to fall apart at the end of a contract? Seriously?

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So you think Cruz is going to hit about 60 home runs this year? You thought before this season that Cruz would be even better than last year when he put up an .859 OPS with a career high 40 home runs?

More like 75 HRs. The pace he is on. Anyone who expected that is just not an impartial observer.

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It's not about what ifs and maybes. Nelson Cruz gives this team a better chance to win every night he plays over anyone that plays LF, RF, or DH and the fact that they felt comfortable with letting him walk based off one possibly bad year at the end of the contract and because they had Pearce/Snider to make up for the lose is idiotic.

Nelson Cruz had a career year at 33 (really 33/34 since he turned 34 on July 1st). Counting on a free agent to repeat an age 33/34 career year as the basis of a fairly long and expensive free agent deal is just about the worst bet you can make as a GM. The Seattle GM might win this one, although that's very far in the future and extremely uncertain, but you lose that bet at least 95 times in 100.

I'd be willing to bet that more 34-year-old sluggers are out of baseball before the ends of their deals than there are 34-year-olds who'd be worth even a 3-year extension at that age and market rates.

And this is the same Nelson Cruz who was worth a grand total of 4 wins from 2011-13 combined. The idea that he was a guaranteed producer for the next 2, 3, 4 years is ludicrous.

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Has a team ever come back from being 4 games out in mid-May?

I would need to run that through a WAR/VORP/DRS/HIV/UZR/IBS algorithm.

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Has a team ever come back from being 4 games out in mid-May?

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Never! We're DONE! Nothing can fix it!!!!

onoz-omg.gif

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You're starting at a losing position when you say that about a 4 year contract. That makes sense on a six or eight year deal, but 50% of the deal being looked at as a throw away before its signed is a bit much. Also, with the reaction here to the backend of the Roberts and Markakis contracts, you expect me to believe the debbie downers would be ok with paying Cruz to fall apart at the end of a contract? Seriously?

It's all a matter of what risk the organization is willing to take. They are paying De Aza, Matusz, and Cabrera ten million this year. I would much rather have invested that money into Cruz and taken the risk of Cruz underperforming the backend of the contract. I think investing ten million into those three guys was a worst investment for a supposedly poor team.

The bolded part of your statement is meaningless. I sure hope the O's organization is not making decisions based on how the OH will react.

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