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With Constant Roster Shuffling, Are Orioles Hurting Kevin Gausman?

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I think a much more important question is how bad are we hurting the team?

I'm definitely at the point where I think he is one of our best 5 starting pitchers, and I'd like for the front office to acknowledge it in a pennant race.

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I think a much more important question is how bad are we hurting the team?

I'm definitely at the point where I think he is one of our best 5 starting pitchers, and I'd like for the front office to acknowledge it in a pennant race.

Completely agree.

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Isn't the reality that he has battled injuries after a very ineffective spring training when he didn't make a case to be in the starting rotation?

I hope he gets his chance for the final 3 months, and I hope he is good but he definitely isn't a lock to be a TOR starter.

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Just posted this in the Givens thread in response to a post from weams, but then saw this thread and decided it belonged here instead.

I think Gausman is a bit overrated by some here. His MiL ERA is 3.52, K rate of 9.0 which is good but not great (for a pitcher of his pedigree in the minors). His major league ERA is 4.20, 4.28 as a starter and 3.86 as a reliever. Last year, in his most extended time in the majors, he had a 3.57 ERA and a 7.0 K/9. He averaged 5.65 IP/start. Sorry, but that doesn't wow me. It's solid, but nothing spectacular.

I know FIP says he is better than those numbers show, but I am not a big believer in FIP. I see a guy who has good fastball velocity but the movement isn't great and the command is just so-so. His changeup is very good but he has to use it a bit too often because his breaking stuff is unreliable and not really top level.

He had a good enough year last season to create an opportunity to seize a rotation spot, but didn't have a very good spring, and so now he's still in this in-between place.

You can argue that the O's should have just handed him a spot, but the truth is, he didn't really do much to earn one. I know Norris an Tillman didn't either, but it was incumbent on Gausman as the guy with a MiL option to go out and eliminate any doubt that he was ready to excel, and he just didn't do that.

I'm sure he's our first guy up in case of injury and he may end up in the rotation if Norris and Tillman continue to have difficulties, but for the future, all I really see is a no. 3 starter.

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Isn't the reality that he has battled injuries after a very ineffective spring training when he didn't make a case to be in the starting rotation?

I hope he gets his chance for the final 3 months, and I hope he is good but he definitely isn't a lock to be a TOR starter.

No that isn't the reality.

You think he looked worse then Norris did in ST?

Be honest, what case could have have possibly made in ST that would have had him leave as a member of the rotation?

Barring some sort of massive meltdown or injury to someone in front of him the rotation was written in stone before camp even opened.

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No that isn't the reality.

You think he looked worse then Norris did in ST?

Be honest, what case could have have possibly made in ST that would have had him leave as a member of the rotation?

Barring some sort of massive meltdown or injury to someone in front of him the rotation was written in stone before camp even opened.

See the FROBBY post, he said it for me

Norris was coming off a 15 win season and is a veteran ML starter

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See the FROBBY post, he said it for me

Norris was coming off a 15 win season and is a veteran ML starter

So you are agreeing that no matter what Gausman did this spring he could not have made the rotation?

So how did he fail to make a case?

Also, pitching wins should never be used as evidence of a pitcher's prowess.

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So you are agreeing that no matter what Gausman did this spring he could not have made the rotation?

So how did he fail to make a case?

Also, pitching wins should never be used as evidence of a pitcher's prowess.

You just want to argue. Gausman had a bad ST, Norris had a bad ST, the job went to the returning veteran as it always does

If Gausman had been lights out in ST, Norris probably would have been traded.

Gausman has had nagging injuries since the season began which have contributed to him not being stretched out as a starter.

I think he will get starts soon, I hope he is better than Norris or Tillman have been this year

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He had a good enough year last season to create an opportunity to seize a rotation spot, but didn't have a very good spring, and so now he's still in this in-between place.

You can argue that the O's should have just handed him a spot, but the truth is, he didn't really do much to earn one. I know Norris an Tillman didn't either, but it was incumbent on Gausman as the guy with a MiL option to go out and eliminate any doubt that he was ready to excel, and he just didn't do that.

I am going to have to dial back a bit on this comment. During spring training I posted a thread that tracked our starters' games. Here's Gausman:

3/04: 1.0 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 1 K

3/10: 2.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 1 K

3/15: 3.0 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 2 K's (B game)

3/20: 4.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 0 BB, 4 K's (MiL game)

3/26: 1.0 IP, 2 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 2 BB, 1 K*

3/31: 3.2 IP, 7 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 BB, 0 K

Those last two outings weren't very good, but he really wasn't given that much opportunity in the spring. His final outing was the only opportunity he had to pitch more than 2 innings in a major league ST game.

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You just want to argue. Gausman had a bad ST, Norris had a bad ST, the job went to the returning veteran as it always does

If Gausman had been lights out in ST, Norris probably would have been traded.

Gausman has had nagging injuries since the season began which have contributed to him not being stretched out as a starter.

I think he will get starts soon, I hope he is better than Norris or Tillman have been this year

I don't just want to argue. Frankly if I was looking for a quality argument I wouldn't be bothering with you.

I just want you to admit that your earlier statement was false.

Gausman had no realistic chance to make the rotation out of Spring Training.

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FRobby letting the stats do the talking! Right, the key for Gausman, and the organization has acknowledged this since we drafted him, is the curveball/slider. He's really got to make that more consistent to be a TOR guy.

Right now though. I mean, right now, he's one of our best 5. I think the way we have managed him has been a way to limit his innings from day 1. I expect him to take a spot after the All Star break and roll with it.

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FRobby letting the stats do the talking! Right, the key for Gausman, and the organization has acknowledged this since we drafted him, is the curveball/slider. He's really got to make that more consistent to be a TOR guy.

Right now though. I mean, right now, he's one of our best 5. I think the way we have managed him has been a way to limit his innings from day 1. I expect him to take a spot after the All Star break and roll with it.

Why did he need to have his innings managed?

Do you think he was a real threat to pitch over 200 innings this year?

Folks act like he only pitched 70 innings last year.

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Just posted this in the Givens thread in response to a post from weams, but then saw this thread and decided it belonged here instead.

I think Gausman is a bit overrated by some here. His MiL ERA is 3.52, K rate of 9.0 which is good but not great (for a pitcher of his pedigree in the minors). His major league ERA is 4.20, 4.28 as a starter and 3.86 as a reliever. Last year, in his most extended time in the majors, he had a 3.57 ERA and a 7.0 K/9. He averaged 5.65 IP/start. Sorry, but that doesn't wow me. It's solid, but nothing spectacular.

I know FIP says he is better than those numbers show, but I am not a big believer in FIP. I see a guy who has good fastball velocity but the movement isn't great and the command is just so-so. His changeup is very good but he has to use it a bit too often because his breaking stuff is unreliable and not really top level.

He had a good enough year last season to create an opportunity to seize a rotation spot, but didn't have a very good spring, and so now he's still in this in-between place.

You can argue that the O's should have just handed him a spot, but the truth is, he didn't really do much to earn one. I know Norris an Tillman didn't either, but it was incumbent on Gausman as the guy with a MiL option to go out and eliminate any doubt that he was ready to excel, and he just didn't do that.

I'm sure he's our first guy up in case of injury and he may end up in the rotation if Norris and Tillman continue to have difficulties, but for the future, all I really see is a no. 3 starter.

This is pretty much right on the mark. Gausman is a two-pitch starter with a third pitch (slider) that's well below average most of the time. His fastball does have good movement at times, but his command of the pitch still is not what it needs to be consistently. He pitched well last season in a starter's role, and he might be better than Norris and Tillman right now, but at the end of the day, he did not pitch very good so far this year in a relief role and as a starter, he's a guy who batters hit .279/.342/.466/.808 the second PA of game and .305/.356/.449/.805 their third PA.

Until Gausman can come up with at least an average breaking ball (personally I think he should ditch the slider *career -2.32 SL/C and -6.62 this year* and go back to the curveball or at least add in a curveball more), he's going to struggle to be anything more than a 5 to 6 inning starter which is more of a 4th or 5th starter.

I have yet to see much from Gausman that suggests he's going to be a future ace. I think his ceiling is a decent 3rd/4th starter unless he develops a consistently average breaking ball. The problem is his breaking ball was below average in college, the minors and now the majors and I'm starting to believe it is what it is at this point. The split-change is so good though that it makes up for his lack of consistent breaking ball, but it obviously limits his effectiveness the second and third time through an order.

The good news is that when everything is on and he can be dominant which is what gives him his 3rd starter ceiling, but has yet to show he can do this consistently enough to be an ace.

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