Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SteveO

The Elephant In The Room (International Talent)

Recommended Posts

Norfolk (AAA) is 17 games above .500 and leads the South League by 4 games.

Bowie (AA) is 14 games above .500 and lead their division by 3

Frederick (A advanced) are in second place but 5 games under .500 and 4 back.

Delmarva Shorebirds (BAL) is .500 but 12 games back.

If our minor league system is in such disrepair why / how are these teams competing? Ill be truthful and say I do not follow any of them. Although we do go to Keys games several times a year.

We have the same number of players on our minor league teams as others.

How are these teams winning with no talent as people claim?

Edited by MdSooner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Norfolk (AAA) is 17 games above .500 and leads the South League by 4 games.

Bowie (AA) is 14 games above .500 and lead their division by 3

Frederick (A advanced) are in second place but 5 games under .500 and 4 back.

Delmarva Shorebirds (BAL) is .500 but 12 games back.

If our minor league system is in such disrepair why / how are these teams competing? Ill be truthful and say I do not follow any of them. Although we do go to Keys games several times a year.

We have the same number of players on our minor league teams as others.

How are these teams winning with no talent as people claim?

Because AAA talent /=/ MLB talent.

I posted about this yesterday. The parent team is not generally concerned about if the minor league teams win games . They care about that small percentage of minor league players that project to be major league players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Because AAA talent /=/ MLB talent.

I posted about this yesterday. The parent team is not generally concerned about if the minor league teams win games . They care about that small percentage of minor league players that project to be major league players.

We have lots of guys in AA and AAA who have played in the majors or may do so. Just not a lot of guys with big upside. The average age of our Norfolk team is 27.4 (league average 27.1). The average age of the Baysox is 25.4 (league average 24.6). Meanwhile, we have two 23-year olds (Schoop and Manny) starring on our major league team. Those are the kinds of players you want your MiL system to produce. We are probably above average with respect to having guys who can fill a major league role competently when someone gets hurt, but below average with respect to guys with a long term future. That's been OK the last few years while we had a lot of good players under team control at the major league level. But it's troublesome over the next couple of years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Angelos and Trump are besties.

I actually believe that DD said once that the cost of international talent is very rarely worth the risk. I don't know if I buy that but at some point the home grown talent is going to rebel against the fact that they are locked into draft slot money while international talent is raking in serious money, sometimes for the same level of experience. That coupled with the Yankees and Dodgers shenanigans will force a serious reform in the international market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Because AAA talent /=/ MLB talent.

I posted about this yesterday. The parent team is not generally concerned about if the minor league teams win games . They care about that small percentage of minor league players that project to be major league players.

That's just not true about Buck and DD. They want to build a culture of winning and have stated that. It's tough to build an MLB team that knows how to win if the players on it have done nothing but lose their entire professional career.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1Angelos and Trump are besties.

2I actually believe that DD said once that the cost of international talent is very rarely worth the risk. 3I don't know if I buy that but at some point the home grown talent is going to rebel against the fact that they are locked into draft slot money while international talent is raking in serious money, sometimes for the same level of experience. That coupled with the Yankees and Dodgers shenanigans will force a serious reform in the international market.

1- Highly doubt that is true and if so what relevance is it?

2- I would love to see the actual quote so I could check the context.

3- A- Players who are not even part of the framework are not going to rebel. There is no way hundreds of 17-22 year-olds join forces to fight against playing pro baseball.

3- B- The owners are trying to establish an international draft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's just not true about Buck and DD. They want to build a culture of winning and have stated that. It's tough to build an MLB team that knows how to win if the players on it have done nothing but lose their entire professional career.

It is true. They took Bundy's best pitch away to force him to refine his other pitches. They are playing Sisco at catcher and Mountcastle at short. You think that is to give their teams the best chance to win?

Someone like Gausman might get sent down with orders to work on his breaking ball. How does that help Norfolk win games? It doesn't, it helps prepare Gausman to pitch in the majors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is true. They took Bundy's best pitch away to force him to refine his other pitches. They are playing Sisco at catcher and Mountcastle at short. You think that is to give their teams the best chance to win?

Someone like Gausman might get sent down with orders to work on his breaking ball. How does that help Norfolk win games? It doesn't, it helps prepare Gausman to pitch in the majors.

They brought Nick Additon back for them though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They brought Nick Additon back for them though.

It is a secondary concern.

Fielding competitive teams does make the cities hosting teams happier.

Isn't that part of the reason Rochester left?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point of this thread should be is that we are actually pretty good at developing international talent once we get it in the system. It would be nice if we just signed 1-2 more top guys than we usually do. It's obviously an Angelos thing and not a Duquette thing. We're fine with signing "proven" Cuban players but not so comfortable signing the top 16 year olds. Macphail may have been partially right but that was ten years ago. You have to be able to change your philosophy. Especially with the new international pool money. An int'l draft is probably coming in a few years. But we shouldn't be out the game until then. But then again we all know Angelos, and he will keep operating like this to prove a point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I watch a lot of minor league games in person. Aberdeen, Frederick, and Bowie especially.

It's fascinating to see the discrepancy of diversity on the field.

Pregame for most opponents has a huge pod of Hispanic players doing their thing, and other cliques generally based on language. You always see Hispanic players in opposing lineups.

The O's generally field a bunch of white dudes, with the occasional exception of a Josh Hart or Brendan Webb. But going by the eye test, they are just way behind everyone else.

Edited by McLovin
spelling
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I watch a lot of minor league games in person. Aberdeen, Frederick, and Bowie especially.

It's fascinating to see the discrepancy of diversity on the field.

Pregame for most opponents has a huge pod of Hispanic players doing there thing, and other cliques generally based on language. You always see Hispanic players in opposing lineups.

The O's generally field a bunch of white dudes, with the occasional exception of a Josh Hart or Brendan Webb. But going by the eye test, they are just way behind everyone else.

Its funny you bring this up. I have been to some Bowie and Aberdeen games this year and was struck by the same thing.

An organization such as ours who operates on a budget and is reliant on developing a significant portion of the team talent (i.e cant just buy anything) is really putting itself behind the 8 ball so to speak with their international approach. It shows in the talent level at the minors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“International flavor

That means there are 27 players who came from the international market, starting with No. 2 prospect Moncada and No. 3 Torres. The newest arrival is one of the newest signees. Venezuelan phenom Kevin Maitan was at the top of the July signing class and makes his debut on this list at No. 32.

Maitan is one of six Venezuelans to make the Top 100, good for a second-place showing. It should surprise no one that the Dominican Republic leads the way with 17 players. Cuba has a pair, while Curacao and Colombia have one representative each.”

https://www.mlb.com/news/2017-top-100-prospects-list-unveiled/c-214450588

 

Just a reminder of how moronic it is to avoid the international prospect market.  27%  over 1 in 4!!

 

You may now return to the regularly scheduled Machado trade drama. . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, but we got Anthony Santander, Pedro Araujo, and Jose Mesa Jr.    That's how we get our international free agents.    :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t get the fire DD crowd for this reason. I’m sure GM’s are lining up to take this job. 

Brady would be Syd Thrift bad. He negotiated the Trumbo, Davis, and O’day extensions. Plus ran Wallace and Chiti out of town over Mike Wright. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • To everyone who reads these posts I apologize for being behind.  My work schedule at the hospital and the demands of laboratory testing for Covid-19 has really caused havoc with my schedule.  I plan to be caught up and current by tomorrow.  Thanks for your support and patience.
    • #50THANNIVERSARY On this day in 1970, the Orioles beat the Kansas City Royals 3-1.  Dave McNally won his 14th game of the season with a complete game 5 hit effort.  McNally walked none and struck out 6. Among the Orioles' 9 hits, Mark Belanger went 3 for 4 with 1 run scored and 1 stolen base while Brooks Robinson went 2 for 3 with 1 run scored. At the end of the month, the Bird's record stood at 64-39. BOX SCORE
    • I like it after seeing it Saturday night. That was very exciting! EVERY half inning was suspenseful. Of course it could be brutally painful... but still would be edge of your seat baseball. MUCH better to be the home team. Even more so than the traditional format.
    • "Live" 11:30 replay just finished. Sweep! GO O's!!!
    • I'm finding myself really looking forward to games these days. I really like what I've seen from Ruiz, Nunez, Iglesias, and Alberto.  But Stewart looks like an automatic out to me. 
    • Fun watching him get swing and misses on that 87mph fastball. 
    • C (2014): Wieters only played 26 games in 2014.  Joseph logged 82 games, the rest split between Nick Hundley and Steve Cleveinger.  The highest OPS of that group is .625.  Wieters himself OPS 839.   C(2020):  both Severino and Sisco OPS'ing over .850 so far.   I'll call this one of a win for the 2020 Orioles. Severino/Sisco >> Joseph/Hundley/Clevenger.   1B:  Davis.   Although he did have a down year in 2014 with only a .700 OPS.  2014 Davis >>>> 2020 Davis.   However, its unclear he will get the majority of starts for the rest of the season.  But I'll count this as a win for 2014 Os regardless.  We don't know if/when Mountcastle gets called up.   2B 2014 Schoop had a terrible year, OPS .598.  Alberto the clear winner hear SS 2014 Hardy OPS 682 vs 2020 Iglesias 1316.  Clear win for 2020 3B 2014 Machado OPS 755 vs 2020 Ruiz 1112.  Win for 2020 LF 2014 David Lough OPS 694 vs 2020 DSJ 808.  DJ Stewart has more games, but I'd venture he's not going to get much more chances.  I'm gonna call this one for 2020. CF 2014 Jones OPS 780 vs Hays 300.  Win for 2014 obviously RF 2014 Markakis OPS 729 vs. Santander 734.  I'll call this one a tie. DH 2014 Cruz OPS 859 vs. Nunez 955.   I''d venture that Nunez doesn't finish better than 859, so I'll call this one a win for 2014.  Final score 2020 O's 5, 2014 Os 3, 1 tie.                
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...