Jump to content
DrungoHazewood

2015-16 Real Football Thread

Recommended Posts

It wasn't a closed shop due to financial investment back then, as you say. But lets not think back then it was a free-for-all without dominant sides.

Between 1972 and 1992, Liverpool finished in the top 2, 17 out of 20 years - winning it 50% of the time (10 times).

Forest not only knocked them off their perch in the top tier league, but also knocked them out of Europe. The subsequent back-to-back European cups also a feat that only a handful have achieved. All this from a position of being promoted from the 2nd tier league.

Look, I'm open about being bitter and biased and I am walking around the office today grumbling about anyone who looks remotely 'happy' but I don't begrudge another team kudos for their achievements. But I do get annoyed when it is talked about as the 'greatest sporting achievement' as it clearly isn't. Or at least, they have a long way to go to reach that.

I can understand your annoyance with those saying that this was the G.O.A.T achievement in the sporting world; maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It's a matter of opinion. I will never take anything away from NFs achievement because it is utterly fantastic and could not be replicated today (my opinion) so I just call it two great accomplishments that occurred during two vastly different eras.

I think that what has driven most of the GOAT storyline in the US is that for most people the accomplishments in the present of teams/players is given far greater value/weight than what happened in the past - just look at the GOAT lists in almost any sport for athletes and it will always be heavily skewed toward the present day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can understand your annoyance with those saying that this was the G.O.A.T achievement in the sporting world; maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It's a matter of opinion. I will never take anything away from NFs achievement because it is utterly fantastic and could not be replicated today (my opinion) so I just call it two great accomplishments that occurred during two vastly different eras.

I think that what has driven most of the GOAT storyline in the US is that for most people the accomplishments in the present of teams/players is given far greater value/weight than what happened in the past - just look at the GOAT lists in almost any sport for athletes and it will always be heavily skewed toward the present day.

The ESPN effect. There were, like, three important things prior to 1979.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's' a fair observation

Clearly association football didn't exist until 1992 and the formation of the PL

Prior to that, it was just odd blokes with top hats and wax moustaches kicking around a pigs bladder

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's' a fair observation

Clearly association football didn't exist until 1992 and the formation of the PL

Prior to that, it was just odd blokes with top hats and wax moustaches kicking around a pigs bladder

:)

Clearly facetious, but isn't it true that some basic rules like substitutions and offsides and cards didn't reach their modern forms until the 1950s or later?

Baseball prides itself, maybe too much, in having very, very few major rule changes since 1904.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Clearly facetious, but isn't it true that some basic rules like substitutions and offsides and cards didn't reach their modern forms until the 1950s or later?

Baseball prides itself, maybe too much, in having very, very few major rule changes since 1904.

I don't think there have been many major rule changes. Offsides have been part of the game since the 1800's in once form or another, with occasional experimentation to increase goal-scoring or tighten things up, the use of cards is fairly recent (70s) and rules around substitutions also - the '3 replacements allowed during a game' rule came in 1995, although had been used in a more restrictive manner before then.

I'm not sure if these things are really any more fundamental than changing the size of the strike zone, or timing visits to the mound etc that baseball keep tweaking.

I think there should be more sweeping changes to football, including a form of video appeal system, which doesn't currently exist. Any suggestion of this ends up generating huge debates, largely centered around it spoiling the purity of the game by removing the random-decision-generator that referee's often act as.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think there have been many major rule changes. Offsides have been part of the game since the 1800's in once form or another, with occasional experimentation to increase goal-scoring or tighten things up, the use of cards is fairly recent (70s) and rules around substitutions also - the '3 replacements allowed during a game' rule came in 1995, although had been used in a more restrictive manner before then.

I'm not sure if these things are really any more fundamental than changing the size of the strike zone, or timing visits to the mound etc that baseball keep tweaking.

I think there should be more sweeping changes to football, including a form of video appeal system, which doesn't currently exist. Any suggestion of this ends up generating huge debates, largely centered around it spoiling the purity of the game by removing the random-decision-generator that referee's often act as.

Thw purity of random number generator refs is crap. But I don't see how you integrate replay into a sport that doesn't stop. And not stopping is a key, one of the defining traits of soccer/football.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the moment on ESPNFC site the photo has the following banner (don't know how long it will be up)

http://www.espnfc.us

ESPN FC TV has Real Madrid vs. Tottenham highlights and reaction (6 p.m. ET, ESPNEWS and WatchESPN)

Drungo...dreams of the future??

Edited by Plutarch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At the moment on ESPNFC site the photo has the following banner (don't know how long it will be up)

http://www.espnfc.us

ESPN FC TV has Real Madrid vs. Tottenham highlights and reaction (6 p.m. ET, ESPNEWS and WatchESPN)

Drungo...dreams of the future??

Ha, yea, that's good. I do have a hard time thinking of Tottenham in the top tier, but we'll get to see some Champions League in the fall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really hard time thinking of Spurs as a top side after a match like Southampton. Way to roll over and play dead at home with the chance to finish ahead of Arsenal for the first time in 21 years on the line. Very, very disappointing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bit of an emotional letdown after probably seeing LC celebrate the title yesterday. Also Alli missing didn't help. Wouldn't worry about the future...very good young manager and and young team. I would think another top four for them next year. BTW Southampton is no pushover (that would be Villa :) ) as they are top 7 or 8 in the table

Edited by Plutarch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought BarnFather would appreciate this:

Ranieri told La Gazzetta dello Sport: "People always try to look for something exceptional in sport but I think that, 30-40 years ago, Nottingham Forest did something even greater than what we have done.

"They got promoted from the second division, then they won the First Division title and then won the European Cup twice, so let's just wait a few more years."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't have thought it possible, but Spurs managed to turn a top-four finish and a Champions League berth into a bitter-tasting collapse of a nightmare. Exceptionally disappointing finale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spurs were terrible today; giving up 3 goals (albeit the first one on a phantom penalty) while playing with a man advantage is not the sign of a team that cared today. In the post game the manager looked shell-shocked by his teams lack of effort (or lack of competence, take your pick). Not really the way to build confidence gaining into next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone been watching Euro2016?

As a Welshman, I am really stoked at Wales getting to the semi-finals to play Portugal. The last time we were in a major tournament was 1958, and since then we have had to sit at home and grit our teeth when England (usually) qualify.

We are free-rolling now really as didn't expect to get this far, but hoping we continue our good form/luck on Wednesday evening

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anyone been watching Euro2016?

As a Welshman, I am really stoked at Wales getting to the semi-finals to play Portugal. The last time we were in a major tournament was 1958, and since then we have had to sit at home and grit our teeth when England (usually) qualify.

We are free-rolling now really as didn't expect to get this far, but hoping we continue our good form/luck on Wednesday evening

Yes, I have been, although I was on vacation mostly cut off from the outside world for about 10 days. Before that I was concurrently following the Copa America and Euro 2016. Both have had some exciting, well-played matches and a fair share of upsets. That there's still the possibility of a Wales-Iceland final, however unlikely, is pretty incredible.

Do you consider yourself a Brit first and a Welshman second? Or the other way around, or is it more complicated? My American frame of reference has me thinking of Wales as like a US State, but I have a feeling there's no direct parallel here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • I’m not sure of the Ravens plans but I have to think that dragging it out longer either costs more money or encourages Stanley to wait and test free agency 
    • There was no binding deal made in March. If there was the players would be suing the league.  You have chosen to ignore facts and logic to fit your preconceived notions.  I am not sure what you have to gain by putting forth an illogical untruthful narrative.
    • Ok, I really am not going to read any more until tomorrow but I couldn't let this stand. I know I am just a small country lawyer and you are a noted labor law expert, but please advise me as to the total lack of logic into my argument. That is great news about teams not having to honor the CBA, I assume that goes for the players too. I guess all the players are free agents now, I hope we sign Mike Trout! Glad that Davis contract albatross is no longer hanging around the Orioles necks! The bottom line is that the owners made a lousy deal in March. It happens. The players have made many missteps in previous CBA negotiations, from not foreseeing the collapse in the free market for mid-range players to not trying to stake a claim early on into MLBAM and other ancillary rights. My belief is that the owners were unrealistically optimistic about the thought of things returning to normal faster than the experts said. Their thought process was likely something along the lines of, "We will be playing by June 1st, and we sell fewer tickets in April and May so getting the players on a one-third discount will be a great deal, maybe we can even increase the number of games played in the summer and make more money off split gate double headers!". They also likely were overly focused on shortening the draft to achieve their long-term goal of cutting minor league teams and saving a few million dollars on the margin.  Unfortunately, actions have consequences, MLB made a bad deal and have to live with the consequences. Maybe they should fire some of the yes-men who assured them that the season will start with fans in mid-May. Maybe they should fire the lawyers that they paid $800+ an hour to negotiate the contract with MLBPA for failing to properly negotiate for the possibility of playing without fans to better insulate themselves from potential losses.  I see both sides, but both sides don't need to compromise. The time for compromise was in March, when the deal was made. A compromise was reached, amateur players got screwed, MLB players got a short term loan (or payment if the season was canceled) to tide themselves over, MLB got cost certainty, and likely (mistakenly) believed that they had pulled one over on the players by cutting their salaries while still being able to hold all the major events of the season and play in front of fans. Now MLB has to honor the deal by paying the players on a pro-rated basis, or open their books and prove to the players that they would lose more money doing that than they would canceling the season. The MLBPA doesn't owe x amount of profitability to MLB, in much the same way that the league doesn't share profits with them. It is a business arrangement entered into by professionals with highly paid lawyers who are among the best in their field. Unfortunately for MLB, it looks like this deal is going to bite them in the behind. It isn't up to the players to bail them out. Hope to hear more constructive comments tomorrow, I am off to enjoy my birthday!  
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...