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In 2012 he had a 4.05FIP and 3.65xFIP in 119 1/3 IP. An 8.56K/9 and 2.75BB/9 are both good, but he was just absolute trash with men on base as shown by his 57.3LOB% which is almost 20% below where most pitchers are. Based on those numbers it looks to me like he had issues pitching out of the stretch. Fix those and you'd have fixed him.

It got progressively worse every single year after the one you cite.

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I see your point. The only problem I ever had with the Jake trade is that I wanted more back then Feldman.

I was just looking at it from a numbers standpoint.

We did get clev as well, who turned into 2016 Mark Trumbo :)

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We did get clev as well, who turned into 2016 Mark Trumbo :)

As I said, Clev should be counted but adding players acquired from other transactions seems off.

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IF players that get acquired from players acquired do not count THEN stats put up the year AFTER a trade should not count either since that player is/was not a player in the organization that traded him and therefore not under that teams control..

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IF players that get acquired from players acquired do not count THEN stats put up the year AFTER a trade should not count either since that player is/was not a player in the organization that traded him and therefore not under that teams control..

I tried to count the production accumulated while the players would have been under team control.

You disagree with that decision?

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I tried to count the production accumulated while the players would have been under team control.

You disagree with that decision?

Then players acquired from said deal in the same time frame should also count.

To get real on the Jake Arrieta frame woek, I do believe that his last option would have been used at the time of the trade and that he would have been Non-Tendered that winter. In that framework, anything we got was/is a bonus.

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Then players acquired from said deal in the same time frame should also count.

To get real on the Jake Arrieta frame woek, I do believe that his last option would have been used at the time of the trade and that he would have been Non-Tendered that winter. In that framework, anything we got was/is a bonus.

I think that second part is where I stand, arrieta was at the end of the line here (or so it seemed) so while it's hard to stomach how good he is somewhere else, I'd rather have gotten what we did (and I have to count trumbo) than nothing at all.

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The state of our organization is so bad right now, we were never going to do anything with Arrieta. We just weren't/aren't capable of developing him, or probably anybody, into the pitcher he has become. So I don't really see it as a lost, just more of wake up call to fix the issues with the organization.

But there's no reason to believe that the players in the Davis trade wouldn't have become what they became with us. So I would say that trade was worse, because we would have realized that production and gave it away.

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The state of our organization is so bad right now' date=' we were never going to do anything with Arrieta. We just weren't/aren't capable of developing him, or probably anybody, into the pitcher he has become. So I don't really see it as a lost, just more of wake up call to fix the issues with the organization.

But there's no reason to believe that the players in the Davis trade wouldn't have become what they became with us. So I would say that trade was worse, because we would have realized that production and gave it away.[/quote']

This statement in "Total" is "Off-Base" IMO.

Should read: The Orioles Organization in the Year/Years in question was so bad that we had little tolerance for under-achieving draft picks. I am of the opinion that the roster as it is currently constructed with "Farm Hands" scattered through out belies the statement that the current people in charge can/will produce players going forward.

Zach Britton

Dylan Bundy

Kevin Gausman

Mychael Givens

Caleb Joseph

Manny Machado

Brian Matusz

Nolan Reimold

Jonathan Schoop

Chris Tillman

Matt Wieters

Tyler Wilson

Mike Wright

By my count, this is OVER HALF the current roster being developed in the "Organization". If this is an Organization" that is devoid of being able to develop talent, I will take it as opposed to some of the alternatives.

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I'm just over the blame game and feeling sorry for ourselves about it. Yeah it sucks, but don't you think Texas was kicking themselves after Davis hit 50 some home runs, or how about the Twins when they traded Ortiz or Seattle when they realized that Montero was a terrible baseball player ??? things like Arrieta happen in baseball, no one to blame necessarily and make a million posts about.

I think that they key word here is "was/were."

Yes, I do think that the Rangers, the Twins, and the Mariners were probably kicking themselves for a period of time after those trades were made (plus, I suspect that the Mariners probably felt fleeced about the Bedard trade, as well.)

But I don't think that those teams are still kicking themselves about it ...... and if they are, I don't think that it is doing them much good, unless they are into masochism.

It happened (as Jim Lampley said after George Foreman KO'd Michael Moorer in November of 1994.) It's over. The milk has been spilled. It's time to see if the Orioles can put together their 5th consecutive non-losing season, and (as a secondary form of entertainment) see if the Cubs can win a Pennant for the first time since 1945.

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I rate the Davis trade worse for two reasons:

1). We traded for Feldman for a reason and we got what we wanted out him (a serviceable 6 inning starter to stabilize the back end of the rotation). We traded for Glenn Davis expecting an All Star and got garbage.

2). I am not at all sure Arrieta would have figured it out and been any good if we had kept him. I sure Steve Finley would have had a very good career for us. I am sure Harnisch would have continued to be a serviceable starter for a few years for us. Schilling? Not sure, he never really clicked with Houston and needed another change of scenery to become great. But there is no doubt we gave up a lot of production in the Davis deal. Not so sure about the Feldman deal. Arrieta might have continued to struggle and eventually go the way of Daniel Cabrera.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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Buck has covered up a lot of mistakes.

I am sure Arrieta was trade because Buck wanted him gone. And DD got what he could for him.

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