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Starting Pitching is Big Achilles Heel

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It wasn't that long ago that we were rolling out retreads like Freddy Garcia and hoping he would just give up 2 HR a start instead of the more likely 4-5.

I think the future looks bright with the likes of Mike Wright, Tyler Wilson, Chris Lee and the other 95+ lefty whose name is escaping me now.

You do realize we are starting Vance Worley and Yovani Gallardo, right?

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I think you're looking for simple answers to a complicated problem. The answer is probably a little bit from column A, a little from B, C, D, E, and F, bad luck, and pinch of divine retribution.

Why have the Orioles never come remotely close to developing a HOF catcher? Matt Wieters is clearly, unambiguously the best catcher they ever drafted. Mickey Tettleton is 6th on the modern Orioles' WAR list for catchers and he has the equivalent of a little over two full seasons with the team. Sometimes stuff just happens.

Eh, why are the Mets able to roll out a Harvey, Syndergaard, Mats and deGrom? Why are the Cubs able to fix Arrieta? How come every starting pitching prospect for the O's ends up as a reliever or out of MLB due to being ineffective?

At some point you look and see Mussina and Bedard. Maybe you could argue Tillman. That's it going on nearly 2 decades. You look to other orgs like the Cardinals and Rays that just draft and develop nearly perfectly. Why can't we be that?

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Lets talk about HOF catchers since 1954. Bench, Fisk, Carter, Piazza.

That's it.

These are the others in the Hall

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9aofoBrFNdg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

A personal favorite, I had no idea that he had a baseball career as well.

It is interesting that about half the catchers in the Hall got there by stories or caveats or yea, well, if only... Gibson and Mackey were Negro Leaguers with only the haziest, loosest numbers to look at. Campy got extra credit for that, too, along with some points for the premature end of his career. Bresnahan is in mainly for semi-tall tales told by John McGraw. Ewing and King Kelly and Deacon White were big stars in an era when you'd collapse if you caught every day and played half their careers at other positions in 80-game seasons early on. Schalk was in for being a clean Black Sox, despite a 22 WAR, sub-Dempsey career. Lombardi got two batting titles where he didn't really qualify but the league president changed the rules on the fly, and a defensive reputation that cannot even remotely be backed up by numbers. Ferrell... nobody knows why he's in, he literally never had a 3-win season by fWAR.

Basically, on pure documentable merit as Major League catchers it's Bench, Berra, Cochrane, Dickey, Carter, Piazza, and Fisk. There have to be more active HOF-worthy OFers than that.

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Eh, why are the Mets able to roll out a Harvey, Syndergaard, Mats and deGrom? Why are the Cubs able to fix Arrieta? How come every starting pitching prospect for the O's ends up as a reliever or out of MLB due to being ineffective?

At some point you look and see Mussina and Bedard. Maybe you could argue Tillman. That's it going on nearly 2 decades. You look to other orgs like the Cardinals and Rays that just draft and develop nearly perfectly. Why can't we be that?

You haven't come one millimeter closer to finishing your root cause analysis than the rest of us. "They suckity suck" isn't a why.

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Good. But not everything is sunshine and lollipops. Last year was an example of it. Just barely .500 and had to win the last 5 games against a bunch of scrubs on expanded rosters. Our starting pitching was awful last year. We let one of our best starting pitchers walk and replaced him with a slop throwing (possibly injured) Gallardo. Our impact starting pitching depth? Dylan Bundy (reliever in the bullpen) and Hunter Harvey (hurt, yet again).

Not quite. The had to win the last 3 against a Yankees team fighting for their playoff lives. Who said Gallardo was possibly hurt and who cares if Bundy is in the pen. If I remember correctly Jim Palmer started out in the pen too.

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Basically, on pure documentable merit as Major League catchers it's Bench, Berra, Cochrane, Dickey, Carter, Piazza, and Fisk. There have to be more active HOF-worthy OFers than that.

And yet, the Orioles. One of 30 teams. A team that dates back to 1954, has never developed or drafted one of them. Or even signed one to an outrageous Free Agent contract!

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You haven't come one millimeter closer to finishing your root cause analysis than the rest of us. "They suckity suck" isn't a why.

No, but it a consistent theme. And I respect that.

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And yet, the Orioles. One of 30 teams. A team that dates back to 1954, has never developed or drafted one of them. Or even signed one to an outrageous Free Agent contract!

You're telling me we couldn't have gotten Dipper in with wild tales of half-truth? It worked for Rick Ferrell!

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Eh, why are the Mets able to roll out a Harvey, Syndergaard, Mats and deGrom? Why are the Cubs able to fix Arrieta? How come every starting pitching prospect for the O's ends up as a reliever or out of MLB due to being ineffective?

The Mets absolutely fleeced the GM of the century Alex Anthopoulos with the Dickey Trade. Fleeced. deGrom could well be hurt badly. Harvey was hurt badley. I love Matz. He's on my fantasy team. He got bombed. Worse than any of our guys did. IT was a Miguel Gonzalez worthy appearance. Greg Maddox got traded too. So did Greinke. No one even questions that the Cardinals are smart. And we know one f the reasons why they are.

Edited by weams

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You're telling me we couldn't have gotten Dipper in with wild tales of half-truth? It worked for Rick Ferrell!

Well, if only he had stayed loyal.

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Not quite. The had to win the last 3 against a Yankees team fighting for their playoff lives. Who said Gallardo was possibly hurt and who cares if Bundy is in the pen. If I remember correctly Jim Palmer started out in the pen too.

Dylan Bundy is only on the 25 man roster because he has to be. Not because he deserves to be.

Gallardo was originally evaluated by our physicians and his contract was scaled back. His top velocity this year is currently less than his average velocity from last year.

Regardless of the last 5 games and who they were against, they are expanded rosters so it's easier to matchup. There's a reason why Buck hates that system. I do, too. The point, however, was that this club was barely a .500 club last year.

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Eh, why are the Mets able to roll out a Harvey, Syndergaard, Mats and deGrom? Why are the Cubs able to fix Arrieta? How come every starting pitching prospect for the O's ends up as a reliever or out of MLB due to being ineffective?

At some point you look and see Mussina and Bedard. Maybe you could argue Tillman. That's it going on nearly 2 decades. You look to other orgs like the Cardinals and Rays that just draft and develop nearly perfectly. Why can't we be that?

Jan. 8, 2011: The Cubs traded pitching prospect Chris Archer and four other prospects for starter Matt Garza, reliever Zach Rosscup and outfielder Fernando Perez.

Got to make up for this trade somehow. Right?

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You haven't come one millimeter closer to finishing your root cause analysis than the rest of us. "They suckity suck" isn't a why.

It's simple. There's a number of people in this organization that are protected by Peter Angelos. And we have had a revolving door of pitching coaches over the years. In regards to development? Eliminating pitches that made guys successful is glaring to me. And trading all of your talent is certainly another. Also messing with a guys mechanics because of a Time To Plate infatuation is a big one to me as well.

This is why it's a combination of Angelos, Duquette and Showalter.

I go back to the Cardinals and Rays...why are they so successful at drafting and developing starting pitchers? They make it look way too easy. I refuse to say luck is a major part of it.

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It's simple. There's a number of people in this organization that are protected by Peter Angelos. And we have had a revolving door of pitching coaches over the years. In regards to development? Eliminating pitches that made guys successful is glaring to me. And trading all of your talent is certainly another. Also messing with a guys mechanics because of a Time To Plate infatuation is a big one to me as well.

This is why it's a combination of Angelos, Duquette and Showalter.

I go back to the Cardinals and Rays...why are they so successful at drafting and developing starting pitchers? They make it look way too easy. I refuse to say luck is a major part of it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Jacob deGrom could not complete his bullpen session*today <a href="https://t.co/LWrvwzeSu3">https://t.co/LWrvwzeSu3</a></p>— HardballTalk (@HardballTalk) <a href="

">April 15, 2016</a></blockquote>

<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It happens. No wonder he wanted to extend.

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It's simple. There's a number of people in this organization that are protected by Peter Angelos. And we have had a revolving door of pitching coaches over the years. In regards to development? Eliminating pitches that made guys successful is glaring to me. And trading all of your talent is certainly another. Also messing with a guys mechanics because of a Time To Plate infatuation is a big one to me as well.

This is why it's a combination of Angelos, Duquette and Showalter.

I go back to the Cardinals and Rays...why are they so successful at drafting and developing starting pitchers? They make it look way too easy. I refuse to say luck is a major part of it.

Tell me who the protected individuals are. I'd love to know. Seriously. This is not a taunt. John Stockstill is evidently well respected. By other teams as well. Who else is on the protection list, other than Rick Dempsey who gets to have a dugout show on TV for kids.

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