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calmunderfire

Hoping we drill some guys in the letters

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At some point, EVERYONE retaliates. If Manny hadn't gone out there, there's no question in my mind that somebody on KC would get hit in retaliation.

Which is why Buck said, No, he wasn't mad at Manny for punching him.

Buck also liked the back to back home runs, and as sweet revenge.

He pointed out before, like Nick getting hit, not that was on purpose, but hitter being hit by the pitcher can seriously hurt a game, which is why he doesn't play that game.

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I thought the three HRs the O's hit after the brawl were the perfect response. I'd like to see more of that today than one of our guys earning an ejection/suspension. Get revenge between the lines.

You have to protect your players. Not in an effort to be more macho than the other team but because of the fact that if you hitters know they go to the plate and can get thrown at with impunity, it makes it harder to hit. It's an analytical argument, not emotional.

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Good post. Manny is far and away the #1 target.

1. He's the best player on the team.

2. Jones is too respected around the league to be plunked.

3. Chris Davis is just too damn big to be plunking like that.

Manny has been hit twice all year. 11 times in his career. That's nothing.

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Buck and Manny knew what was happening. I'm somewhat surprised that Buck let him go, or at least didn't try to stop him. But, I think that he made a quick calculation that a disgruntled Manny would be worse than a super motivated Manny minus a few games. Rock and a hard place decision which I agree with. If we are in the unfortunate situation of having to bat in the bottom of the ninth, watch out. I don't trust KC as honorable opponents.

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Buck and Manny knew what was happening. I'm somewhat surprised that Buck let him go, or at least didn't try to stop him. But, I think that he made a quick calculation that a disgruntled Manny would be worse than a super motivated Manny minus a few games. Rock and a hard place decision which I agree with. If we are in the unfortunate situation of having to bat in the bottom of the ninth, watch out. I don't trust KC as honorable opponents.

I agree and I am sure, the mental part of Buck, played that out in his mind, when he warned Manny that he would be hit.

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I don't like them throwing at our best player in two separate consecutive AB's. And now he's going to be suspended for a handful of games, maybe more.

We're winning big now.

Sad thing is we're pussies when it comes to beanball retaliation. I've watched the O's get drilled over and over and over through the years and all we do is jog to first. And then our pitchers never back our guys up, never. The most we'll do is wait to 2 outs and bases empty and then throw at somebody's calf. That's all we ever do.

Destroy somebody. It needs to be done.

In all the years I played through college, coached and scouted afterwards I never advocated this approach. Nobody likes being hit but they're giving up a free base. That said, Ventura is an idiot with a history of this kind of behavior. But Ventura never is the recipient of retaliation unless a NL team has an axe to grind. I get Manny's reaction, but I'd prefer he just take his base

Thanks for another well reasoned thread.

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Manny has been hit twice all year. 11 times in his career. That's nothing.

HBP stats don't tell the whole beanball story. HBP is part of baseball. Majority of HBP's are unintentional outcomes when a pitcher loses control. Also, a guy could be hit 20 times a season. Another could be hit 6 times per season. But the guy who was hit 6 times could have been targeted intentionally far more than the guy who was hit 30 times. If you stand right on top of the plate like Anthony Rizzo you get drilled by accident. That's what happens when your toe is 3 inches from the inside corner.

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In all the years I played through college, coached and scouted afterwards I never advocated this approach. Nobody likes being hit but they're giving up a free base. That said, Ventura is an idiot with a history of this kind of behavior. But Ventura never is the recipient of retaliation unless a NL team has an axe to grind. I get Manny's reaction, but I'd prefer he just take his base

Thanks for another well reasoned thread.

You can say that if it's a one-time thing - which is usually the case. This was a 4 time thing, and I think any professional player would tell you that if a pitcher throws at you 4 times without ANY retaliation whatsoever and just hit you with a 99 MPH fastball, he's going to keep doing it. And if the batter does nothing, he's going to get a reputation for being soft among his peers.

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Good post. Manny is far and away the #1 target.

1. He's the best player on the team.

2. Jones is too respected around the league to be plunked.

3. Chris Davis is just too damn big to be plunking like that.

Purely speculative. Ventura is an isolated incident. I watch every game and have seen no intent on the part of opposing pitchers to target Manny. And to interpret any such intent is subjective.

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You can say that if it's a one-time thing - which is usually the case. This was a 4 time thing, and I think any professional player would tell you that if a pitcher throws at you 4 times without ANY retaliation whatsoever and just hit you with a 99 MPH fastball, he's going to keep doing it. And if the batter does nothing, he's going to get a reputation for being soft among his peers.

It's the American League it is the pitcher's responsibility to drill there best guy if you intentionally drill our best guy. The DH rule protects Ventura. So you destroy Cain and then it stops.

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HBP stats don't tell the whole beanball story. HBP is part of baseball. Majority of HBP's are unintentional outcomes when a pitcher loses control. Also, a guy could be hit 20 times a season. Another could be hit 6 times per season. But the guy who was hit 6 times could have been targeted intentionally far more than the guy who was hit 30 times. If you stand right on top of the plate like Anthony Rizzo you get drilled by accident. That's what happens when your toe is 3 inches from the inside corner.

Yeah, I think Ron Hunt was tickled pink to get hit - as his body was tickled black and blue.

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Purely speculative. Ventura is an isolated incident. I watch every game and have seen no intent on the part of opposing pitchers to target Manny. And to interpret any such intent is subjective.

Papelbon just did it. He's been blatantly targeted twice now in like a 60 or 70 game span.

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Yeah, I think Ron Hunt was tickled pink to get hit - as his body was tickled black and blue.

He was once hit 50 times in a season. And lead the league 7 times in HBP. I've never heard of him before, but logic would probably dictate that this guy was standing directly on top of the plate.

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You can say that if it's a one-time thing - which is usually the case. This was a 4 time thing, and I think any professional player would tell you that if a pitcher throws at you 4 times without ANY retaliation whatsoever and just hit you with a 99 MPH fastball, he's going to keep doing it. And if the batter does nothing, he's going to get a reputation for being soft among his peers.

You don't think Buck protects his players? I'm pretty certain Buck can and would speak to the HP umpire or crew chief if he thinks there is a problem. And as I said, I have no problem with Manny's reaction. It's just not my preference.

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