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Updates on Hunter Harvey

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11 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Oh jeez, the classic response. Let me ask you this,

Why are we on a message board talking about baseball if we can’t question decisions?  

Here’s the logic behind it... There’s usually a hard rule in the minors that you don’t let a P throw 30-35 pitches in a single inning. Especially in relief.

Harvey’s barely pitched in 5 years, why get into any risky scenario with him?????

What did we learn from this outing?  That Harvey can get players like Parra and Cabrera out, but then pitch around everyone else?  Some big learning experience. 

Harvey should have been pulled after Rendon. He was at 25 pitches and was starting to show a dip in velo. 99-100 to 96-97 on the FB. 

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I think it’s irresponsible and idiotic, to have any P throw 33 pitches in an inning. Especially when they are a prospect and have been injury plagued. In a meaningless game.

If you disagree with that, well then I guess you read Dusty Baker’s “how to” book. 

I think you have good point but your language is a little strong.   Hyde has done well in a tough situation this year.  He and Elias seem on the same page.   If Elias agrees with what Hyde did with Harvey tonight then that is two really good baseball minds at work. If Elias does not agree then I am sure he will tell Hyde.

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3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I think you have good point but your language is a little strong.   Hyde has done well in a tough situation this year.  He and Elias seem on the same page.   If Elias agrees with what Hyde did with Harvey tonight then that is two really good baseball minds at work. If Elias does not agree then I am sure he will tell Hyde.

Sorry for calling him an idiot.

What about Hyde’s decision to leave DJ Stewart in the game as well?

Just to point out the irony... Calling Hyde an idiot is “too tough”, but Hyde risking our players physical health is just “testing them”.   

Hyde also got into a very public dust up with Chris Davis. I guess that’s ok because it’s the whipping boy Chris Davis. 

Let’s just say Hyde isn’t making the best of decisions over the last couple of weeks. 

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8 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I have to say it... it was pretty reckless of Hyde to keep Harvey out there for 30+ pitches in an inning. His FB was good but he was laboring through the tough part of the lineup. He should’ve been pulled after Rendon. Instead he faced Soto and then Cabrera. 

Hyde is kind of an idiot for that. 

Hyde was the only guy willing to take the job and I can’t wait till he’s gone. He’s nothing more than Bo Porter 2.0. 

 

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Oh jeez, the classic response. Let me ask you this,

Why are we on a message board talking about baseball if we can’t question decisions?  

Question away.  But I'd hope we can do that in a rational manner.  You act like 10 additional pitches in an inning is the difference between a solid manager and someone who only has the job because he was flat dumb enough to hitch his career to a floundering franchise.

This isn't a black-and-white on-off switch.  Managing isn't a series of logic gates, all OR'd together, and if one gets tripped it's firing time.  It's more like a collection of heat maps, all quasi-subjectively defined.  Last night Hyde ventured a tiny bit into a red area of your personal heat map for pitcher use and WHAM he's an idiot who couldn't be gone fast enough.

Hyde seems like a pretty reasonable, decent guy who was selected by a smart GM to help the team get through rebuilding.  He might be a caretaker manager, he might not be around for the next good O's team, but we don't know that for sure.  And I'm quite confident that the O's had way more applicants for his job than they could interview.  It's one of 30 major league managerial positions making $hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, with no expectations and pressure to win.  Almost every minor league manager and half of every major league coaching staff would have taken the position.

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26 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

 

Question away.  But I'd hope we can do that in a rational manner.  You act like 10 additional pitches in an inning is the difference between a solid manager and someone who only has the job because he was flat dumb enough to hitch his career to a floundering franchise.

This isn't a black-and-white on-off switch.  Managing isn't a series of logic gates, all OR'd together, and if one gets tripped it's firing time.  It's more like a collection of heat maps, all quasi-subjectively defined.  Last night Hyde ventured a tiny bit into a red area of your personal heat map for pitcher use and WHAM he's an idiot who couldn't be gone fast enough.

Hyde seems like a pretty reasonable, decent guy who was selected by a smart GM to help the team get through rebuilding.  He might be a caretaker manager, he might not be around for the next good O's team, but we don't know that for sure.  And I'm quite confident that the O's had way more applicants for his job than they could interview.  It's one of 30 major league managerial positions making $hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, with no expectations and pressure to win.  Almost every minor league manager and half of every major league coaching staff would have taken the position.

You’re right. Hyde’s a caretaker manager. He needs to take better care of our players/prospects. Like pulling guys from the game when they take a ball off the head, or take a P out without venturing into a “risky” area. 

We’re not even in the “coddle” our prospect state yet because the prospects are still in the minors. So while we’re losing 110 games, don’t make risky decisions. Error on the side of caution and live to fight another day. 

Overall, big picture, what did Harvey learn?  Brocail makes a mound visit and then Harvey throws non competitive pitches to Soto and Rendon.  8/9 next pitches were balls. What did Brocail say when he came out?  Did he really tell him to pitch around those two guys?  

Man, go back read or watch the summary of that inning. All I’m saying is there is questionable logic there with Brocail and Hyde. It ventures into reckless when you factor in that Harvey is on the mound. 

I’ve apologized for calling him an idiot. I realize not everyone is following the games live anymore. Go back and research if you haven’t, then let’s discuss the logic. 

Edited by sportsfan8703

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1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Sorry for calling him an idiot.

What about Hyde’s decision to leave DJ Stewart in the game as well?

Just to point out the irony... Calling Hyde an idiot is “too tough”, but Hyde risking our players physical health is just “testing them”.   

Hyde also got into a very public dust up with Chris Davis. I guess that’s ok because it’s the whipping boy Chris Davis. 

Let’s just say Hyde isn’t making the best of decisions over the last couple of weeks. 

No, Chris Davis's actions made the dust up "very public".

Hyde is forced by ownership and upper management to have an overpaid, worthless player on his roster every night. 

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1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Sorry for calling him an idiot.

What about Hyde’s decision to leave DJ Stewart in the game as well?

Just to point out the irony... Calling Hyde an idiot is “too tough”, but Hyde risking our players physical health is just “testing them”.   

Hyde also got into a very public dust up with Chris Davis. I guess that’s ok because it’s the whipping boy Chris Davis. 

Let’s just say Hyde isn’t making the best of decisions over the last couple of weeks. 

You've gotta be kidding about the Davis thing.  That was 100% on Davis acting like a child, and Hyde has done EVERYTHING to excuse Davis all year long.  If anything, he should be applauded for his handling of Davis.  

And I actually agreed with your point about keeping in Harvey too long, but then linking that somehow to the Davis situation makes no sense.  And calling him an idiot because you disagreed with his using Harvey too long was way over the top, imo.  As another poster pointed out, it was good to see what Harvey was made of.  I still wouldn't have kept him in, but you can see a reason why Hyde would have thought differently.     

 

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3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

You’re right. Hyde’s a caretaker manager. He needs to take better care of our players/prospects. Like pulling guys from the game when they take a ball off the head, or take a P out without venturing into a “risky” area. 

We’re not even in the “coddle” our prospect state yet because the prospects are still in the minors. So while we’re losing 110 games, don’t make risky decisions. Error on the side of caution and live to fight another day. 

Overall, big picture, what did Harvey learn?  Brocail makes a mound visit and then Harvey throws non competitive pitches to Soto and Rendon.  8/9 next pitches were balls. What did Brocail say when he came out?  Did he really tell him to pitch around those two guys?  

Man, go back read or watch the summary of that inning. All I’m saying is there is questionable logic there with Brocail and Hyde. It ventures into reckless when you factor in that Harvey is on the mound. 

He is a converted starter coming off two days off. The 33 pitch inning isn't that risky. If he was pitching around the two batters, that is 8 low stress pitches.

You are just seeking out evidence to support your already established beliefs.

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6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

You’re right. Hyde’s a caretaker manager. He needs to take better care of our players/prospects. Like pulling guys from the game when they take a ball off the head, or take a P out without venturing into a “risky” area. 

We’re not even in the “coddle” our prospect state yet because the prospects are still in the minors. So while we’re losing 110 games, don’t make risky decisions. Error on the side of caution and live to fight another day. 

Overall, big picture, what did Harvey learn?  Brocail makes a mound visit and then Harvey throws non competitive pitches to Soto and Rendon.  8/9 next pitches were balls. What did Brocail say when he came out?  Did he really tell him to pitch around those two guys?  

Man, go back read or watch the summary of that inning. All I’m saying is there is questionable logic there with Brocail and Hyde. It ventures into reckless when you factor in that Harvey is on the mound. 

I’ve apologized for calling him an idiot. I realize not everyone is following the games live anymore. Go back and research if you haven’t, then let’s discuss the logic. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree.  I think on a recklessness scale of 0-10 this is a 2 or 3, you think it's a 9.  Okay.

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We did win the game, right?  I mean I sort of enjoyed watching the kid battle a bit and if Fry comes in and Cabrera hits a grand slam, let’s say....whooo boy, the Hyde bashers would be having a field day.  There are risks in whatever you do.  The young man got hurt the last time when he was sitting in the dugout. 

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18 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree.  I think on a recklessness scale of 0-10 this is a 2 or 3, you think it's a 9.  Okay.

While 33 pitches is a lot, I don’t think it’s over the line.    Harvey threw 33 pitches in an inning at least once in the minors this year (July 5), and probably more than once.    For example, he threw 78 pitches in 2.1 innings in a start back in May.    I can’t find a breakdown of pitches for each inning, but he almost would have had to throw 30+ in an inning in that game.    He had a number of other games with very high pitches per inning where he may have thrown 30+ in one of the innings.    

Now, I did not watch this game, so I don’t have an opinion as to whether Harvey should have been pulled sooner.     But I think at worst I’d disagree with Hyde’s decision but not consider it irresponsible.    

PS - looking at pitch f/x, I really don’t see much of a velocity drop as the inning progressed.

speed.php-pitchSel=640451&game=gid_2019_

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24 minutes ago, Frobby said:

While 33 pitches is a lot, I don’t think it’s over the line.    Harvey threw 33 pitches in an inning at least once in the minors this year (July 5), and probably more than once.    For example, he threw 78 pitches in 2.1 innings in a start back in May.    I can’t find a breakdown of pitches for each inning, but he almost would have had to throw 30+ in an inning in that game.    He had a number of other games with very high pitches per inning where he may have thrown 30+ in one of the innings.    

Now, I did not watch this game, so I don’t have an opinion as to whether Harvey should have been pulled sooner.     But I think at worst I’d disagree with Hyde’s decision but not consider it irresponsible.    

PS - looking at pitch f/x, I really don’t see much of a velocity drop as the inning progressed.

speed.php-pitchSel=640451&game=gid_2019_

Adam Eaton battled Harvey hard and was the second out as a K.  Here is the back and forth about that confrontation:

And then Hyder's assessment of the Rendon and Soto confrontations:

 

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Harvey reminded me of Darren O'Day at his best.  Not the 99mph.  But the confidence on not giving in to hitters and then getting the guy he needed to get.

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I would assume Harvey has a pitch count approved by Orioles doctors. He has had plenty of rest in between appearances. Let's remember that two of Harvey's major injuries were of the freakish variety unrelated to his pitching motion. If we have to treat him as a delicate flower, that is always going to be in the back of his mind and he is not going to be a good MLB pitcher. If it's OK with the doctors, I am giving Hyde the benefit of the doubt and support letting the kid pitch.

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5 minutes ago, interloper said:

When do you think he gets shut down? 

I’m hoping he won’t get shut down at all, but he might.   He’s at 79.2 innings right now between the majors and the minors.    This after throwing 63.2 combined in 2015-18.     My guess is that as long as he’s not looking like he’s losing anything, they’ll let him pitch another 8-10 innings, nicely spaced out.   

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