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LookitsPuck

Nobody I'd rather have behind the helm in 2017 than Buck

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That's wrong. The book says you use your closer at home because you never know when you are never going to have the lead. The only scenario you win is a walkoff. So you can use your closer any time. On the road, you wait until you have a lead. If a lead never comes, so be it.

Well that's a poor book. The Orioles would have eventually scored a run, likely on a homer, if the game had lasted long enough. The best way to make the game last longer was to pitch your best pitcher(s).

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If Theo Epstein and the 2003 Boston Red Sox felt the same way you did, they never would have fired Grady Little. Little essentially got fired for making one mistake.

I would argue that leaving Pedro in there after 118 pitches was easier to criticize than what Buck did or didn't do last night. Regardless, Little is not, never was the manager Buck has been. He doesn't have the track record of excellence. And he hasn't done it with a very flawed roster.

Life is brutal, man. Buck has done so much for this organization, and everyone wants his head on a platter because he lost an 11-inning game in which his SILLY lineup scored 2 runs on three hits, with one walk. ONE walk in 11 innings. I'm about done listening to this argument. I understood last night in the heat of the loss and possible liquid emotion involved... but to get up this morning and clear-eyed say Buck's gotta go, that's beyond my comprehension.

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If Theo Epstein and the 2003 Boston Red Sox felt the same way you did, they never would have fired Grady Little. Little essentially got fired for making one mistake.

Are you sure about that? It wasn't an accumulation of things, culminated by a mistake? And even if it's true, is that how you want to run things? Do good bosses cultivate a culture where you're always living in fear that your next mistake will be your last?

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Well that's a poor book. The Orioles would have eventually scored a run, likely on a homer, if the game had lasted long enough. The best way to make the game last longer was to pitch your best pitcher(s).

When a game's going into extra innings, that changes things. It's the same thinking behind keeping your pitchers in a certain order during the season - setup man, closer, etc. Going by your logic, why not bring Britton in first every night instead of last? If he's your best pitcher, why isn't he in there more times than everyone else? He should ALWAYS have the most innings pitched by your logic.

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Why was Robin Ventura left off of the list?

Really, why was anyone left off that list? Ned Yost has a ring, he's way better. Paul Molitor totally would have used his closer last night.

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Can I name a manager who did use his closer in a must-win game in the postseason when his team didn't have the lead? Bruce Bochy. He used his closer Sergio Romo during a tie game in the bottom of the 9th inning in Game 3 of the 2012 NLDS against the Reds when they were one loss away from going home. The Giants ended up taking the lead the following inning and wound up winning the game and later the World Series. But then again what does Bruce Bochy know? He only has three WS rings for making decisions that go against the book in the postseason.

What about the O's offense made you feel they were going to get a lead anytime soon? The offensive approach was horrible and seemed to get a lot worse after the Kim incident.

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When a game's going into extra innings, that changes things. It's the same thinking behind keeping your pitchers in a certain order during the season - setup man, closer, etc. Going by your logic, why not bring Britton in first every night instead of last? If he's your best pitcher, why isn't he in there more times than everyone else? He should ALWAYS have the most innings pitched by your logic.

Having a formula and going by the book makes a lot of sense over the long haul. There are times, desperate times, for throwing a formula out the window and doing what you have to do. Last night was one of those times. One and done.

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Well that's a poor book. The Orioles would have eventually scored a run, likely on a homer, if the game had lasted long enough. The best way to make the game last longer was to pitch your best pitcher(s).

The really insane part about this move is that Buck made this mistake 21 years ago with the Yankees. In Game 5 of the 1995 ALDS, he let SP Jack McDowell face the heart of the Mariners lineup instead of going to his closer, John Wetteland. We all know what ended up happening next. Edgar Martinez hits that famous double down the time line and Griffey ends up at the bottom of a dogpile at home as the Mariners move on to the ALCS.

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Baseball managers I'd rather have than Buck

Bruce Bochy

Joe Maddon

Terry Francona

Joe Girardi

Jeff Banister

There's five right there. Hell, even John Gibbons was smart enough to use his closer and best reliever Roberto Osuna in a non-save situation. Typically you don't use closers in extra innings at home but even Gibbons realized the urgency of every inning was and didn't wanted to risk going down with bullets left in the chamber.

Would never want Maddon. As much as I don't like Buck's in-game moves, Maddon overly manages games. It works for him because he routinely has one of the most talented teams in baseball, but I wouldn't want it. Giradi is debatable. He has a habit of sticking with relievers too long and running them into the ground.

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When a game's going into extra innings, that changes things. It's the same thinking behind keeping your pitchers in a certain order during the season - setup man, closer, etc. Going by your logic, why not bring Britton in first every night instead of last? If he's your best pitcher, why isn't he in there more times than everyone else? He should ALWAYS have the most innings pitched by your logic.

Because in the first inning you have no idea if your pitcher is going to be pitching an important inning or an unimportant one. Britton obviously can't pitch 5, 6, 7 innings and stay effective and healthy. So you save him for the key moments of important games. You don't pitch him constantly because he'll break down, and you don't need to risk that on games that aren't close.

But once you're in the later innings of a close playoff game it's VERY important, so you get your best pitcher(s) in the game. There's a good reason Mariano Rivera was a one-inning regular season pitcher who averaged less than half an inning per scheduled game, but pitched more (about 1.5 innings/appearance) and more often in the postseason. It's a different risk/reward calculation when, if you lose, your next appearance will be on 120 days rest.

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This anti Buck, it's Buck's fault stuff is absurd. He's the best manager in the game. If

we used ZB in 11th and didn't score, and later grabbed the lead, who would close out the game, Jimenez?

Hunter, Bundy, or Jimenez.

And if they failed...so be it. At least we would have let our best players try to beat the Blue Jays rather than try to beat them without using one of our best.

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Tonight sucked.

So did the Miley implosion against the Yanks.

But there are very few managers I'd rather roll the dice with than Buck in 2017.

Extra innings and the only runs scored were a 2 run bomb from Trumbo. This offense feasts on homers. And dies on anything else.

Buck did everything he could. And, yes, he failed w/ the Jimenez decision. But if Jones, Davis, Schoop, Machado, Hardy (etc.) all choke and only score 2 off a homer back in the first 4 innings...

...well maybe the issue isn't always the most obvious.

Go O's.

In BUCK we trust.

See you in the offseason.

Damn right buddy. If I had plus, I'd rep you

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a) Talking about firing Buck is an absurd emotional knee-jerk, a response to a hard-to-stomach loss

but

b) Not using Britton was clearly a mistake

You are right on with this. I'm a huge supporter of Buck and I agree that he made costly mistakes. Ubaldo has been good lately, but this was a terrible time to test him, especially when you have Bundy and Britton.

I don't understand removing Kim for Reimold either. I get splits, etc, but he's one of our best hitters. Let him bat in a big game when we need hits.

All that being said, it feels somewhat good to say "Maybe next year" as opposed to "Maybe three years from now". Let's retool with some serious pieces and do better next year.

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