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Sign Bourn and Pagan and presto we have an outfield

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1 minute ago, ChuckS said:

Revere's OBP prior to 2016 going back four years:  .342, .325, .338, .333.  

Bourn's OBP going back four years: .314, .310, .314, .316.

I'll take Revere.  He's also a better base stealer.  I don't want either guy playing RF.  But I'll take Revere in left versus right handers.   

Both players are fine on milb deals with invites to ST.  Only reason Bourn would get a mlb deal is he had some success here last year and showed he can play RF.  

If we have a platoon in LF, a platoon at DH, there might not even be room for a platoon bat in RF.  

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1 hour ago, Babypowder said:

You called him a protoypical lead off hitter. He is not that, which is what I pointed out. He's a bad hitter anywhere in the lineup. High average means very little when it doesn't come with a high OBP and no power. I don't want a guy who even if he rebounds is 20 percent worse than league average at the plate getting the most plate appearances on the team.

We can debate on the definition of a prototypical lead off hitter but once against...my thoughts are a guy with speed, gets on base enough. Obviously .260 OBP will not cut it, but will .320? I think so  when you account for the ability to  A) steal a base, B) first to third, and C) put pressure on the pitcher for the hitters that can do damage on mistakes likes Machado, Jones, and Davis. So, prototypical lead off hitter maybe, probably not but he suits the teams needs well.

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24 minutes ago, oriole said:

We can debate on the definition of a prototypical lead off hitter but once against...my thoughts are a guy with speed, gets on base enough. Obviously .260 OBP will not cut it, but will .320? I think so  when you account for the ability to  A) steal a base, B) first to third, and C) put pressure on the pitcher for the hitters that can do damage on mistakes likes Machado, Jones, and Davis. So, prototypical lead off hitter maybe, probably not but he suits the teams needs well.

If the team's needs are to willfully score less runs by employing a poor offensive player to get 600 PAs at the top of the lineup, then he suits their needs well.

They're better off with Adam Jones continuing to lead off, he's at least around league average offensively. Even in a career average season, Revere is a well below league average hitter. That's not what you want in the lineup everyday in a corner outfield spot, much less so leading off, no matter the perceived needs of the team.

Edited by Babypowder

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21 minutes ago, oriole said:

We can debate on the definition of a prototypical lead off hitter but once against...my thoughts are a guy with speed, gets on base enough. Obviously .260 OBP will not cut it, but will .320? I think so  when you account for the ability to  A) steal a base, B) first to third, and C) put pressure on the pitcher for the hitters that can do damage on mistakes likes Machado, Jones, and Davis. So, prototypical lead off hitter maybe, probably not but he suits the teams needs well.

.320 is not good enough. Can't steal 1B We'd be much better off with KIM's .382 leading off even if he isn't a threat to steal.

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Both moves are underwhelming and bound to disappoint, IMO.  Bourn is declining rapidly, and Pagan is no spring chicken either.  Neither of them makes the O's a better team than they were last season.

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6 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

If the teams needs are to willfully score less runs by employing a poor offensive player to get 600 PAs at the top of the lineup, then he suits their needs well.

They're better off with Adam Jones continuing to lead off, he's at least around league average offensively. Even in a career average season, Revere is a well below league average hitter. That's not what you want in the lineup everyday in a corner outfield spot, much less so leading off, no matter the perceived needs of the team.

Lol you got it...less runs is exactly what this team needs. I like seeing some speed in the lineup so you'll have to excuse my bias. I also tend to not be fond of signing older players and I want good defense. I see that in Revere.

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13 minutes ago, El Gordo said:

.320 is not good enough. Can't steal 1B We'd be much better off with KIM's .382 leading off even if he isn't a threat to steal.

I think it's enough when you have the ability to steal 40+ bases. Kim is a tank, great OBP and would be cool to see him hit 2nd since he seems to be good at gettin the ball in play...especially if there was a speed guy in front of him. 

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Just now, oriole said:

I think it's enough when you have the ability to steal 40+ bases. Kim is a tank, great OBP and would be cool to see him hit 2nd since he seems to be good at gettin the ball in play...especially if there was a speed guy in front of him. 

Stolen bases are really over rated.

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I really don't get the fascination some have for Bourn.  Yes, he's got good speed - but nowhere near the speed he used to have.  He's got a wet noodle for a RF arm, and he can't hit - aside from a decent streak here or there.  Why would people expect him to improve when he's in his 30's?  Just cuz?  Plech.

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4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The best team of what is left in FA for us;

1. Pagan RF S (2016 splits .766 vs RHP, .717 vs LHP) No need for a platoon

2. Kim LF L 

3. Machado 3B R

4. Encarnacion DH R

5. Davis 1B  L

6. Jones CF R

7. Schoop 2B R

8. Castillo C R

9. Hardy SS R

Flaherty, Joseph, Rickard, Open spot(Rule 5 guy, Tavarez)

Spend the 25ish million on Pagan and EE.  Rid ourselves of the Gallardo contract.  That's how you win the division and not just play 162 games for a chance at a 1 game play in game.  It's all up to PA.  OF defense is improved.  OBP is improved.  

This is the best plan I have seen if the goal is to win. This actually gives us five guys who can get on base. I might put Kim 9th and shift everyone up one, but this is the right idea. It is the only way you can plan on competing with the Red Sox

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6 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I like Pagan and Bourn, just not on the same team.  They are a little redundant.  I think we're fine with a Kim/Rickard platoon in LF with Rickard playing vs LHP and being a defensive replacement.  

Pagan is probably the best "leadoff" guy out there.  If you believe in that type of thing.  We could compete with Pagan in RF and a platoon of P.Alvarez/Mancini at DH.  

LF: Kim/Rickard

CF: Jones

RF: Pagan

DH: Alvarez/Mancini

Bench: Joseph, Flaherty, Alvarez/Mancini, Rickard

There's other, more expensive options out there, if we want to try and actually win the division and not just play of the WC game.  

So you would return Tavarez before he even gets a chance in ST.   I doubt Dan and Buck go in that direction.   

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3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

So you would return Tavarez before he even gets a chance in ST.   I doubt Dan and Buck go in that direction.   

Ideally you'd like to get a look at Tavarez in Santander in ST.  But let's be realistic.  The 40 man roster is full.  We need to add two bats to the team and maybe a Bullpen arm.  So that's three possible guys that would have to go.  I'd handicap the bottom of the 40 man roster as so;

40.  C. Walker

39. Santander

38. TJ Macfarland(Does he have an option left?)

37. Tavarez

36. Pena(no options)

35. Adam Walker

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I don't like any of these guys.

Bourn and Pagan are two old bandaids.   They do nothing for the  O's long term.  

Revere's noodle arm and poor OBP for a lead off guy doesn't help the O's.

Rasmus is a low OBP/high strike out guy that does not fit what the O's need.

Granderson is old (36).  A one year fix at 15m.  Not where the O's need to go.

The O's probably  have massive changes coming next off season.  They need to fix the outfield this off season.

The O's probably have to wait until Encarnacion signs.  Trumbo could be the next to sign after him.   If the O's get him then Mancini can be traded in a package with minor leaguers to get a right fielder with young legs.   That is were I hope the O's go.

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