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Rene88

That Loss Was On Buck but Wilson must go

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1 minute ago, PaulFolk said:

Yes, and under normal circumstances, he wouldn't be a late game reliever. But these weren't normal circumstances. All the go-to late game relievers (except maybe Givens) were unavailable.

The penalty of winning a lot, and closely.

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2 hours ago, PaulFolk said:

o

The constant need to say every loss was "on" someone or to pinpoint blame is annoying. Sometimes you just lose.

If there's such a thing as a loss you can shrug off, that was the very definition of it. The Orioles were using a minor-league fifth-starter call-up, and went up against a very good pitcher. They probably couldn't use O'Day, Brach, or Britton because they'd all pitched two days in a row, so they had a thin bullpen. Entering the game, nobody would've been surprised or especially upset by an Orioles loss under those circumstances. At least they made it exciting at the end.

o

o

 

Thank you, Paul.

That was a tough loss, but it could have been worse. We could have lost it in 14 innings and burned the entire bullpen, or we could have lost it in 17 innings with Chris Davis on the mound (after having burned through whatever was left of the bullpen.)

 

Every once in a while a manager's options are limited, and today was one of those times. They (MLB managers) have to manage BOTH individual games AND long-term team situations.

 

o

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

But Buck doesn't believe in the save rule...

This isn't fair. You are comparing a tie game on the road with a depleted pen and when the other team will have 2 at bats for your one the rest of the way.  

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1 minute ago, weams said:

The penalty of winning a lot, and closely.

Yep, we had that one game in Boston but other than that they were all close. 

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3 minutes ago, weams said:

The penalty of winning a lot, and closely.

Exactly. It is very hard in MLB to sustain prolonged winning streaks.

I wonder what's up with Givens though.

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3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

This isn't fair. You are comparing a tie game on the road with a depleted pen and when the other team will have 2 at bats for your one the rest of the way.  

Of course it's fair.  Buck flat out said he didn't believe in the save rule.  And since they day he has behaved as if the save rule is one of the more important things in his life.

Instead of worrying about keep the other team from winning, he wanted to save a particular pitcher to pitch if the O's had a lead.

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10 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Wilson isn't a late game reliever. This isn't his spot we all know that including the manager. He is a long man.  

Tie game on the road is a classic long man situation because you can't use your closer and you don't know if/when your team will score.

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Just now, Aristotelian said:

Tie game on the road is a classic long man situation because you can't use your closer and you don't know if/when your team will score.

When has that ever been a "classic long man" situation? 

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Buck's bullpen choice wasn't good, like in the wildcard game. The main responsibility for the loss, however, like in that game, falls on the offense. In that game, hitters up and down the line-up were consistently swinging at pitches well out of the strike zone, and helping the pitchers. There was some of the same today, particularly in at-bats with runners in scoring position. Jones and Trumbo, to name two, got themselves out on balls when they were up in rbi opportunities. Need to be more selective.

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Just now, Aristotelian said:

Tie game on the road is a classic long man situation because you can't use your closer and you don't know if/when your team will score.

Or, you can "not believe in the save rule" and use the guys more proficient at keeping the opposition from scoring.

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9 minutes ago, PaulFolk said:

I don't think I said anything about having low standards. But you have to look at the situation realistically. The Orioles' three best relievers were unavailable, and Hart had already been used. That leaves Wilson, Nuno, and Givens (and even Givens might've needed some rest too). I would've gone with Givens if he was available, but chances are either Wilson or Nuno would've ended up in the game eventually if it had gone to extras.

I get being annoyed at Wilson, but I don't blame Buck for using him there.

And I bet you rationalized not using Britton in the WC too? Just curious. We all love Buck but certain fans will defend him at all costs. 

Sorry, I just don't agree with your assessment. Accepting losing "is annoying", particularly when it's the Blue Jays! 

You got to put the dagger in, they were 1-9.

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1 minute ago, Rene88 said:

And I bet you rationalized not using Britton in the WC too? Just curious. We all love Buck but certain fans will defend him at all costs. 

Sorry, I just don't agree with your assessment. Accepting losing "is annoying", particularly when it's the Blue Jays! 

You got to put the dagger in, they were 1-9.

It's a sport where the best teams still lose 62 games.

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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Of course it's fair.  Buck flat out said he didn't believe in the save rule.  And since they day he has behaved as if the save rule is one of the more important things in his life.

Instead of worrying about keep the other team from winning, he wanted to save a particular pitcher to pitch if the O's had a lead.

If Brach pitches the 9th then who pitches? You have to score still to win. This wasn't a playoff game.  

He uses the save rule as a leverage index in my opinion. He wants his best out there in 3 run games.  

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Or, you can "not believe in the save rule" and use the guys more proficient at keeping the opposition from scoring.

The only guy besides Brach was Nuno. I do not believe he is any more proficient than Wilson. Regardless of the save rule, you need the best combination to pitch at least two, possibly more innings. Brach might get you through one but then you still need to get another, and maybe even more than that. You cannot burn Wilson and Brach there, period.

 

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