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Frobby

The 34 biggest contributors to the 2012-17 Orioles

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Why 34?    That's how many players have been worth 1 fWAR or more from 2012-17.    Here's who they are and where they came from.

Drafted and developed by the Orioles:   Machado 23.1, Wieters 10.0, Gausman 7.3, Britton 6.5,  Markakis 3.8, Matusz 2.2, Johnson 2.1, Givens 2.0, Arrieta 1.8, Bundy 1.6, Joseph 1.1

Acquired as an amateur free agent and developed by the Orioles:  Schoop 3.5

Acquired via trade as a major leaguer:  Jones 19.4, Davis 18.8, Hardy 11.3, Pearce 6.2, Hammel 3.2, Brach 3.1, Trumbo 1.9, Norris 1.9, Hunter 1.8, Lough 1.2, Miley 1.1, Feldman 1.0, Miller 1.0

Acquired via trade as a minor leaguer:   Tillman 9.6

Acquired as a free agent: Chen 9.3, Jimenez 4.5, Gonzalez 3.7, McLouth 3.7, Cruz 3.7, Alvarez 1.1

Claimed off waivers: O'Day 4.9

Acquired in the Rule 5 draft: Flaherty 1.1

I must say, fWAR is really "f"ed in some cases.   How has Ubaldo contributed more to this team than Miguel Gonzalez?  Only in some crazy, hypothetical world. 

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4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I must say, fWAR is really "f"ed in some cases.   How has Ubaldo contributed more to this team than Miguel Gonzalez?  Only in some crazy, hypothetical world. 

It's a FIP thing, you wouldn't understand.

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5 minutes ago, Crazysilver03 said:

By far the biggest contributor is the Seattle Mariners. Thanks for Jones, Tillman, Miley, Trumbo, and Cruz. 

Shouldn't take Smith long to join them.

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7 minutes ago, Crazysilver03 said:

By far the biggest contributor is the Seattle Mariners. Thanks for Jones, Tillman, Miley, Trumbo, and Cruz. 

 

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Shouldn't take Smith long to join them.

He can replace Cruz, who never played on the Mariners before he came to Baltimore. ;)

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9 minutes ago, Crazysilver03 said:

By far the biggest contributor is the Seattle Mariners. Thanks for Jones, Tillman, Miley, Trumbo, and Cruz. 

Cruz went to Seattle after us.  Seattle should be thanking us for letting him go. 

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Amazed/skpetical that Arrieta gave us any positive WAR number considering he had a 6+ ERA in 2012 and a 7+ ERA in 2013. 

As you pointed out fWAR seems to have a lot of problems when it comes to pitchers such as Ubaldo>Miguel Gonzalez. 

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2 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Amazed/skpetical that Arrieta gave us any positive WAR number considering he had a 6+ ERA in 2012 and a 7+ ERA in 2013. 

It's a FIP thing, you wouldn't understand.

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I like rWAR better than fWAR for pitchers because of how they use FIP.  To me you end up with what value the pitcher should have had and not what they actually provided.

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6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I like rWAR better than fWAR for pitchers because of how they use FIP.  To me you end up with what value the pitcher should have had and not what they actually provided.

I like fWAR for the same reason you stated basically.  fWAR is a better way to judge a pitcher's true talent level.  It takes the bad luck/defense out of it. 

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3 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

I like fWAR for the same reason you stated basically.  fWAR is a better way to judge a pitcher's true talent level.  It takes the bad luck/defense out of it. 

I like FIP just fine as it is.

For something like WAR I would like to see what actually happened as opposed to the skill level.  Hitting is also influenced by luck, does fWAR penalize hitters with high BABIPs?  Oh Mark Trumbo had an unsustainably higher FB/HR ratio in 2016, lets lop off .5 WAR for it!

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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I like FIP just fine as it is.

For something like WAR I would like to see what actually happened as opposed to the skill level.  Hitting is also influenced by luck, does fWAR penalize hitters with high BABIPs?  Oh Mark Trumbo had an unsustainably higher FB/HR ratio in 2016, lets lop off .5 WAR for it!

I'm with you on this one since I prefer WAR as a tool to look back, rather than forward. Both types are useful but I find that most of the time people cite WAR they're trying to point to how much a player actually, specifically, contributed to a team. Not how much they theoretically would have contributed to an average team playing in the void with other factors stripped away. I like WPA for the same reason. How much did a guy tangibly impact the outcome of games, with all the tangled mess left in?

 

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16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 Hitting is also influenced by luck, does fWAR penalize hitters with high BABIPs?

That's a good question.  I'm going to lean towards no, since a high BABIP could be considered a skill.   That would be a good question for a FG chat, though. 

It's great that there are 3 different versions of WAR. All are useful in their own way. fWAR is just the one I prefer most of the time. 

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/war/war-position-players/

BABIP isn't mentioned in that link.

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3 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

That's a good question.  I'm going to lean towards no, since a high BABIP could be considered a skill.   That would be a good question for a FG chat, though. 

It's great that there are 3 different versions of WAR. All are useful in their own way. fWAR is just the one I prefer most of the time. 

Sure, that way I can pick the flavor that best supports the argument I am making at the time.

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