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ReclaimTheCrown

It's time to go back to a seven man pen

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So I know we've had a lot of success thus far and clearly Buck likes his five man bench. That said, I think we are beginning to see the effects of having a short pen. I get the sense Buck is a bit hesitant to go to the pen (not lifting Ubaldo tonight being a prime example), and I think it's possibly because we are constantly short out there. Now, Buck has obviously gotten greedy in pushing starters in the past even with a full pen, but I feel like it's getting worse. We arguably only had four arms at all available out there tonight (Asher pitched 3+ on Sunday and I bet Brach is down after pitching a ton lately). That's not sustainable.

I like all of our bench guys, and it'll be hard to DFA Gentry, option Rickard, or, as some have suggested, get rid of Kim somehow (for better or worse, Mancini not going anywhere at present). But I think it's time to get back to a standard pen, especially with no Britton for a few months. I'd like to see us be able to match up through the late innings in close games. That means more to me than having upgraded defense in the OF those same innings. 

Thoughts?

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I don't think a short pen had anything to do with the move to stay with Ubaldo.  He hadn't gave up a hit since the 3rd inning.  He gave up a solid single to opposite field and a blooper of Weiters.  He then struck out next hitter.  Lefty up and Givens up is not a place you bring him into anyway.

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Buck's been leaving Ubaldo in too long since he got here. Don't think it's the 6 man pen. 

Tonight wasn't even too long.

Edited by capyy

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16 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

I don't think a short pen had anything to do with the move to stay with Ubaldo.  He hadn't gave up a hit since the 3rd inning.  He gave up a solid single to opposite field and a blooper of Weiters.  He then struck out next hitter.  Lefty up and Givens up is not a place you bring him into anyway.

I take your point, but as good as Ubaldo was tonight, I would make the argument that I don't want to lose a game with my worst starter about 110 pitches deep. I would argue that there is a trickle down effect....he may not be willing to warm guys as liberally because he can't afford to burn a guy unnecessarily. 

I do think the point stands that he night after our starter (Gausman) went seven strong innings, we still only have four relievers available tonight. I just think we are quickly approaching the point of unsustainability. And the point at which the utility of having a real array of guys in the bullpen exceeds a fifth bench player. And I like each of those guys and would love to keep them.

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It's time to go back to a normal 12 man pitching staff. We can't run our guys into the ground in the pen. 

 Buck just said that we had a three man pen tonight. We can't win like that. It's time to get rid of a position player ASAP. I like the idea of trading Kim for a vet reliever if we can. Hello San Francisco. 

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1 hour ago, Crazysilver03 said:

This is where I think Kim really needs to be removed from the roster. 

I wanted Kim to hit for Caleb Joseph in the 11th against a righty. Frankly, if he isn't going to pinch hit in that situation, he probably shouldn't be on the roster.

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2 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I wanted Kim to hit for Caleb Joseph in the 11th against a righty. Frankly, if he isn't going to pinch hit in that situation, he probably shouldn't be on the roster.

This. If he isn't going to be used to PH than take him off the roster. 

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2 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I wanted Kim to hit for Caleb Joseph in the 11th against a righty. Frankly, if he isn't going to pinch hit in that situation, he probably shouldn't be on the roster.

For a man so renown for his strategic acumen, it amazes me how much Buck hates using pinch-hitters. It's like pulling teeth with him. He only seem to use pinch-hitters when he really has no other alternative. He only puts them in if it's the team's trailing and its their final at-bat. If it's before the ninth inning, he won't use one. If it's a tie game, he won't do it either.

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8 minutes ago, MurphDogg said:

I wanted Kim to hit for Caleb Joseph in the 11th against a righty. Frankly, if he isn't going to pinch hit in that situation, he probably shouldn't be on the roster.

He's not pinch hitting. He doesn't offer value other than his "hit" tool. We're facing a pitching problem. We're heading to a NL park where Kim will be even more irrelevant. 

Hopefully we can trade this guy for a vet reliever or at this point for anything that we don't have to eat salary. 

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Just now, sportsfan8703 said:

He's not pinch hitting. He doesn't offer value other than his "hit" tool. We're facing a pitching problem. We're heading to a NL park where Kim will be even more irrelevant. 

Hopefully we can trade this guy for a vet reliever or at this point for anything that we don't have to eat salary. 

I imagine we will see him pinch-hit for the pitcher in NL parks. But you can't be on an AL bench as an outfielder if you are not a defensive upgrade and you aren't going to pinch-hit or pinch-run for anybody in the lineup.

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I guess Kim is the odd man out, but I think over the course of the season he's a much better hitter than Rickard or Gentry.  Not sure how to quantify the defensive side, but it might outweigh that advantage w/ the bat.  Oh well.  We definitely need some additional pitching. 

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Just now, Emory Eagle said:

I guess Kim is the odd man out, but I think over the course of the season he's a much better hitter than Rickard or Gentry.  Not sure how to quantify the defensive side, but it might outweigh that advantage w/ the bat.  Oh well.  We definitely need some additional pitching. 

We've got a better version of Kim in Seth Smith, and combined with what Mancini's shown, it creates a big problem for Kim.  Gentry, Rickard, and/or Bourn are out there to provide better defense, baserunning, ability to play CF, what have you -- Kim does none of that.

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