Jump to content
ReclaimTheCrown

It's time to go back to a seven man pen

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, thezeroes said:

Blank statement.  You should probably go on  record as to who the JUNK is so when the JUNK turns into Arrieta, members of this board can belittle your post.

Pretty Much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I'm fine with the idea of going to a 7-man pen, for the life of me I don't see how that would have changed the outcome of the last two games.     Unless they've got a 7th guy down there who's the next Zach Britton.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Frobby said:

While I'm fine with the idea of going to a 7-man pen, for the life of me I don't see how that would have changed the outcome of the last two games.     Unless they've got a 7th guy down there who's the next Zach Britton.  

This is the thrust of the whole argument.  There is not another version of the 2016 Zach Britton to be found.  As fans, we are a bunch of "Spoiled Brats".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Frobby said:

While I'm fine with the idea of going to a 7-man pen, for the life of me I don't see how that would have changed the outcome of the last two games.     Unless they've got a 7th guy down there who's the next Zach Britton.  

The fact that Nuno is pitching after an off day says it all in a tie game in the 8th inning. That set fans off, obviously had we known that 2 pitchers aren't available then it makes sense. 

There is a trickle down impact of going with a short pen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

This is the thrust of the whole argument.  There is not another version of the 2016 Zach Britton to be found.  As fans, we are a bunch of "Spoiled Brats".

Who said there was?

It is the industry standard to have a 7 man pen. The Orioles without their closer and coming of an off day have 2 more pitchers not able to pitch. Are you ok with Buck having fo push his starters out of necessity? No one expects the guys they call up to be as good as Zach, that isn't the point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

The fact that Nuno is pitching after an off day says it all in a tie game in the 8th inning. That set fans off, obviously had we known that 2 pitchers aren't available then it makes sense. 

There is a trickle down impact of going with a short pen. 

I don't think so.    There would be a trickle down effect if we were using a Brach, O'Day or Givens to handle middle relief innings that they wouldn't otherwise cover because we were short handed in long or middle relief.   That hasn't been the case.   The problem is that (1) Britton is on the DL, so whoever we use in the 9th isn't available in the 7th or 8th, (2) O'Day has been unavailable a bit more than usual, first due to flu and now due to who knows what, and (3) we've been ahead in so many games that our back end guys are getting used a lot.   To the last point, we've had 21 save opportunities, most in the league; league average is 14; the Yankees, who have a virtually identical record, have 13; the Astros, who have the best record in the league, have 17.     That's put a lot of pressure on our back end guys and adding an extra Verrett, Bleier, Ynoa or whoever isn't really going to change that.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I don't think so.    There would be a trickle down effect if we were using a Brach, O'Day or Givens to handle middle relief innings that they wouldn't otherwise cover because we were short handed in long or middle relief.   That hasn't been the case.   The problem is that (1) Britton is on the DL, so whoever we use in the 9th isn't available in the 7th or 8th, (2) O'Day has been unavailable a bit more than usual, first due to flu and now due to who knows what, and (3) we've been ahead in so many games that our back end guys are getting used a lot.   To the last point, we've had 21 save opportunities, most in the league; league average is 14; the Yankees, who have a virtually identical record, have 13; the Astros, who have the best record in the league, have 17.     That's put a lot of pressure on our back end guys and adding an extra Verrett, Bleier, Ynoa or whoever isn't really going to change that.    

At some point that is going to happen. What if Bundy was pulled early last night? 

You have no choice but to trust someone else here and there. They are going to for now have to try Asher in a Givens type role and push Givens up a spot. 

Your point about the saves chances is a valid one. That said we have seen Buck push his starters because he had no choice. He needs options, even less than ideal ones. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, eddie83 said:

At some point that is going to happen. What if Bundy was pulled early last night? 

You have no choice but to trust someone else here and there. They are going to for now have to try Asher in a Givens type role and push Givens up a spot. 

Your point about the saves chances is a valid one. That said we have seen Buck push his starters because he had no choice. He needs options, even less than ideal ones. 

But I can't think of games where he hasn't had options in the middle innings.    And it's not that he hasn't had enough options in the later innings, it's that the guys he'd really like to use are either unavailable or a bit tired.    Asher was an option on Wednesday, Nuno was an option yesterday.   For that matter, he could have gone back to Asher.    

Just to reiterate, I'm not necessarily opposing having a 7-man pen.    I'm just saying I don't think the shorter pen was the reason we lost the last two games.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Frobby said:

But I can't think of games where he hasn't had options in the middle innings.    And it's not that he hasn't had enough options in the later innings, it's that the guys he'd really like to use are either unavailable or a bit tired.    Asher was an option on Wednesday, Nuno was an option yesterday.   For that matter, he could have gone back to Asher.    

Just to reiterate, I'm not necessarily opposing having a 7-man pen.    I'm just saying I don't think the shorter pen was the reason we lost the last two games.   

I agree about the last 2 games. Sorry if I came across otherwise. 

If Bundy gets yanked early lady night then you better hope Nuno eats the rest. If he does that than another move needs fo be made. 

My concern is at some point he is going to have no choice but to burn a quality arm in the middle of the game because he has no one else.  

What I am trying to say and maybe I have done a poor job of saying it is that we need to give an Asher-like he did the other night- a chance late in games. We have no choice right now.  I think Buck has pushed his starters more than usual early on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching wall to wall baseball and they were talking about it.  Dave johnson brought up a nice point that the Orioles feel that if we just let Rickard go down, or DFA Gentry or Kim in hurts on aspect of the game.   He mentions that a key guy could be Michael Bourn.  Bourn could give us a left handed bat which can take the spot that Kim has yet has speed and good defense that can replace Gentry.  Bourn could allow you to let go or trade those guys and he fills almost two spots up.  That would allow you the 7 man pen.  He also said that doesn't mean Bourn plays against right handers and Manici plays vs lefties.  He would start Mancini 5 or 6 games a weak but Bourn is there as a left handed hitter a speed guy and decent defender.  That made a lot of sense which with Johnson is a bit odd.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

Watching wall to wall baseball and they were talking about it.  Dave johnson brought up a nice point that the Orioles feel that if we just let Rickard go down, or DFA Gentry or Kim in hurts on aspect of the game.   He mentions that a key guy could be Michael Bourn.  Bourn could give us a left handed bat which can take the spot that Kim has yet has speed and good defense that can replace Gentry.  Bourn could allow you to let go or trade those guys and he fills almost two spots up.  That would allow you the 7 man pen.  He also said that doesn't mean Bourn plays against right handers and Manici plays vs lefties.  He would start Mancini 5 or 6 games a weak but Bourn is there as a left handed hitter a speed guy and decent defender.  That made a lot of sense which with Johnson is a bit odd.

 

 

If teams thought Bourn could still hit then why was he without a job? I could see the Orioles doing what Dave describes. 

I know Bourn hit well in September last year but not before. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Frobby said:

While I'm fine with the idea of going to a 7-man pen, for the life of me I don't see how that would have changed the outcome of the last two games.     Unless they've got a 7th guy down there who's the next Zach Britton.  

Logan Verrett's pitched very well yet they keep sending him down at every opportunity. I definitely would have been more comfortable with him pitching the 8th last night than Vidal Nuno. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, bpilktree said:

Watching wall to wall baseball and they were talking about it.  Dave johnson brought up a nice point that the Orioles feel that if we just let Rickard go down, or DFA Gentry or Kim in hurts on aspect of the game.   He mentions that a key guy could be Michael Bourn.  Bourn could give us a left handed bat which can take the spot that Kim has yet has speed and good defense that can replace Gentry.  Bourn could allow you to let go or trade those guys and he fills almost two spots up.  That would allow you the 7 man pen.  He also said that doesn't mean Bourn plays against right handers and Manici plays vs lefties.  He would start Mancini 5 or 6 games a weak but Bourn is there as a left handed hitter a speed guy and decent defender.  That made a lot of sense which with Johnson is a bit odd.

 

 

How does sending Joey Rickard down hurt the club? Rickard is below average in every aspect of the game except hitting left-handed pitching and he hasn't even hit lefties that well this year (.290 OBP and .724 OPS against LHP). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

If teams thought Bourn could still hit then why was he without a job? I could see the Orioles doing what Dave describes. 

I know Bourn hit well in September last year but not before. 

Bourn is not an everyday player but that doesn't mean teams didn't want him he is the normal end of spring type signing teams make to cheap deals and even minor league deals.  He is basically a 4th outfielder at this point.  He actually has not been a bad hitter over the last couple years just looked real bad because of price,  2015 he struggled for sure but other years he has been .260-.275 hitter.  The way Mancini is playing he should get a bulk of the starts but Bourn is a guy that can fill in for a few days and not hurt team.

I would like to see Bourn come up DFA Gentry and move Kim and then send Nuno down with Verret up and Yacabonis up n the next 10 days or so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • So, to be clear, you think every player in the system should be brought up to the major league team?  As others have said, it is easy now, in hindsight, to say that Elias should have seen that Yaz was going to be a star in the three weeks of spring training he had to look at him, after an uninspiring minor league career under the previous regime, but that just seems to be an unreasonable assessment of Elias, IMO.
    • You can’t blame Elias for not seeing it coming though. 
    • I don’t think he should have had much of a chance. I wish we were smart enough to see it coming. That’s whT I’m disappointed in and what I don’t want to happen in the future.
    • Yaz played the instrument for years and wasn’t good.  He deserved nothing and didn’t earn anything.
    • Yeah, I don't consider returning a Rule 5 guy to be a fail.  In fact, it is the most likely result, league-wide.  I really consider taking Rule 5 shots at guys to be a matter of nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Also, IMO, picking up stop gap players and have them turn out to be exactly that isn't really a fail, either.  Sure, I'd like to see us strike gold on one of these guys, but I can't say that I expect it to happen.  I'm more interested in seeing how guys we acquire like Vavra and Smith turn out.
    • So? The guys we brought up for a chance, every guy brought up for a chance, as opposed to bringing up “because he is ready,” is by definition being given an opportunity that he doesn’t necessarily deserve. We risk nothing by bringing him up. I’m a musician, and I can’t judge a piece without paying it once. Maybe not all the way through, but gotta sit down and play it. Now, it might be by a terrible or unknown composer, and some would say,”it’s by Danzi, it sucks.” Well, so? Maybe it does suck. Danzi was a mediocre composer. But maybe it doesn’t suck. Maybe it’s worthwhile, as recital filler, or as a rare gem from a mediocrity. But if I play it, I’ll know. As another surprisingly similar example, the widow of a local cellist gave me some of her late husband’s music, including an untouched piece he bought 50+ years ago. So rare there’s only one lonely YouTube audio, and the music is long out of print and the publisher is itself long out of business. I played it and said, “this is an incredible piece.” And it is. So this piece is Yaz. The previous owner never bothered to play it, and I did, and I get the benefit. If he’d played lit, maybe he’d have hated it, maybe not. But he never gave it a chance.
    • Well let’s remember that a lot of parts of that system that are good were here before Elias got here.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...