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alaniee

Thoughts on Buck Showalter continuing as manager after this year?...

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It's tough, because Buck has brought this team back from the dark ages. There is no one more prepared than Buck. He is great, from a fan perspective, to listen to in his press conferences. It is fair to say his loyalties to older players sometimes hinders the progress of the team, overall. But that loyalty is why most players love him. He's an old school baseball guy, by today's standards.

When he leaves the manager job, I believe it will be on his terms. But when he does, he will be missed. He and Dan just do not get along, that much is obvious. But I wonder if some of the grief Dan gets for trading young pitchers away that flourish elsewhere belongs at the feet of Buck. In fairness, you cannot tell me that if Buck wanted Bridwell or Miranda up that he could not have had them. He certainly had seen him over the years, along with the others. 

Buck as the GM...that is interesting, a little scary and very likely. 

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All Buck has done is preside over the greatest stretch of long term success since the late 70's/early 80's.  He changed the culture of this team and made them not only relevant, but a winner.

Some of you guys that want to run him out of town crack me up.  Maybe they can replace him with Phil Regan, Ray Miller, or Sam Perlozzo.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm good with Buck for as long as he wants to be here.  PGA needs to offer him an extension this offseason and not have him go into 2018 as a lame duck.

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Yeah Buck has his quarks... But seriously WHO would you find better then Buck right now??

If anything I would like to see Buck extended, I like the guy. 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

He and Dan just do not get along, that much is obvious. But I wonder if some of the grief Dan gets for trading young pitchers away that flourish elsewhere belongs at the feet of Buck. In fairness, you cannot tell me that if Buck wanted Bridwell or Miranda up that he could not have had them. He certainly had seen him over the years, along with the others. 

Buck as the GM...that is interesting, a little scary and very likely. 

It's not obvious to me that Dan and Buck do not get along.    I don't think they're bosom buddies, but their working relationship seems OK to me.    I'm sure there is some friction, but well under control, it seems to me.

As to whether Buck bears some of the blame for our difficulties in developing young starting pitchers, I'd have to say yes.     Some of his major league coaches were not good choices, there's been a lot of turnover among pitching coaches, his focus on TTTP is counterproductive at times, and I think he has some say on what goes on in development in the minors.     But there's a whole story here that's never really come out in depth.   We've seen reports that Rick Peterson did not get along with some of the line coaches, and now he's been replaced.     I do think it's on Dan to figure out which of our prospects can succeed at the major league level.

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Buck is a top five manager in all of baseball.

I'd love to see him get the WS ring he's always deserved while managing the Os.

I think that the criticism of him "sticking with his guys to a fault" is not baseless. But it should be pointed out, that he is also not afraid to cast convention to the wind and manage creatively.  Look at his use of Joseph and Castillo this year. Look at how he's managed to keep his bullpen so rested and effective over the years, despite below average rotations. Look at his use of platoons.  Look at the organizations use of rule 5 guys. Look at the sneaky use of the DL and the willingness to shuffle guys to and from the minors constantly, to keep players fresh... (I know some of this is the front office, but still).

My point is, I think the characterization of Buck as an old dog who can't learn new tricks, really underrates his managerial creativity and prowess.

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27 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It's not obvious to me that Dan and Buck do not get along.    I don't think they're bosom buddies, but their working relationship seems OK to me.    I'm sure there is some friction, but well under control, it seems to me.

As to whether Buck bears some of the blame for our difficulties in developing young starting pitchers, I'd have to say yes.     Some of his major league coaches were not good choices, there's been a lot of turnover among pitching coaches, his focus on TTTP is counterproductive at times, and I think he has some say on what goes on in development in the minors.     But there's a whole story here that's never really come out in depth.   We've seen reports that Rick Peterson did not get along with some of the line coaches, and now he's been replaced.     I do think it's on Dan to figure out which of our prospects can succeed at the major league level.

Maybe I read a little too much into Buck's bristly comments, at times, when he talks about personnel moves. He seems evasive about their relationship mostly, aside from the occasional, "we talk about things regularly" comments he will make. Perception, for me, is that Dan wanted to sell and Buck did not. That is the scenario I think Dan lives for. Making trades and building a younger and cheaper talent base. Buck clearly likes his nuggets and holds them as long as he can. Markakis and Wieters were like sons for him, and it crushed him to see them leave. Perhaps that is a healthy difference, but seems not to be at times. It seems like an underlying tension between them occasionally gets intense. 

I appreciate what Buck has done and continues to do. I want him to stay as long as he likes, to be clear. We have had no better manager since Earl. And yes, I want him to get his WS ring with us.

As far as development, Buck is certainly involved. Peterson's ousting was interestingly quiet. I was just referring to the evaluations of players that were moved for minimal return. Every organization has goofs there, but Bridwell and Miranda just seem to have been undervalued. Bridwell and Ed Rodriguez made some reported changes and the results were immediately better upon leaving the O's. Ed Rod brought us Miller in a time we went for it. I'm good with that. But to lose a young pitcher like this for a PTBNL? 

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47 minutes ago, TommyPickles said:

Buck is a top five manager in all of baseball.

I'd love to see him get the WS ring he's always deserved while managing the Os.

I think that the criticism of him "sticking with his guys to a fault" is not baseless. But it should be pointed out, that he is also not afraid to cast convention to the wind and manage creatively.  Look at his use of Joseph and Castillo this year. Look at how he's managed to keep his bullpen so rested and effective over the years, despite below average rotations. Look at his use of platoons.  Look at the organizations use of rule 5 guys. Look at the sneaky use of the DL and the willingness to shuffle guys to and from the minors constantly, to keep players fresh... (I know some of this is the front office, but still).

My point is, I think the characterization of Buck as an old dog who can't learn new tricks, really underrates his managerial creativity and prowess.

Yeah, I don't agree with everything he does, but on the whole... he's been legitimately GREAT as the O's manager.  I hope he chooses to stay for many more years.    

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I love when an entire fanbase willfully ignores every single bad in game decision (over and over again) and flaw the manager has, and expresses their undying love for him. Brings a tear to my eye.

Should we build him a statue when he leaves? 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Frobby said:

I'm a huge Buck fan, and want to keep him, but it's legitimate to ask whether he's gotten too set in his ways and whether his loyalty to veteran players is hurting the team.    Overall I think he brings a lot more positives than negatives.

I have two concerns with Buck - not sure either are his responsibility or DD's.

First, where did the evaluations for Jake, Bridwell, and others break down?  Was it DD?  Was it Buck?  Who decided they could be moved or wouldn't work out at the major league level.  These are very costly mistakes.

Second, between DD and BS, who is the chief guy keeping the band together mostly without replacement each year?  Did Buck say - I need Wieters to win, I need Hardy to win.  I can't win without Chris Davis.  We are keeping too many veterans at too high salaries too late into their careers for this run folks call the "Machado window".  This player loyalty has been an issue with BS with past teams, I believe, and had hoped that he would have learned from those past mistakes.  

What I liked about AM was that he was NOT a scout - so he listened to his direct reports and made deals based on input.  I am not sure BS would operate like this, but would go more on his opinion.

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11 hours ago, alaniee said:

What are y'alls thought's on Buck Showalter continuing after this season as manager ??

As for me, I've had enough. Buck's thinking and strategy isn't working with the Orioles anymore. When he first came aboard, I remember the excitement and the effect he had over the players. Nowadays, I don't see it anymore. Buck seems so old and washed up is what I see now.

Of course I'm not saying he's not a good coach. I am sure he's still a good coach. I just don't see him being the right guy here for much longer. It's time to phase out the "old" mangers and bring in young fellas. I'd love to see the Orioles more aggressive, more stealing bases, more excitement.

The orioles I see now don't show much excitement. It's gotten old. Buck has gotten old. I'm done with him, his time has come. It's time for Buck to move on and enjoy his retirement. I don't know what Buck's contract status is?? If he's only signed through this season, I certainly hope he moves on and/or the organization decides against signing him back. The same goes for Dan Duquette. Time to move on. Time for a new ERA.

Baltimore needs excitement. Baltimore needs young blood throughout the organization.

For example, I was hoping the rain delay tonight would last 2-3 hours JUST because I didn't want Tillman back out there. 2 homeruns to the first 2 batters, I knew Tillman had NOTHING tonight. Why put him back out there... only to get us further behind. Come on now. Time for aggressive changes. Time for accountability.

Please do not suggest parting ways with Buck Showalter without having a replacement who is A) a clear, tangible, heads-and-shoulders above upgrade, and B) is readily available (read "not contractually bound to another club") to serve at the pleasure of Peter Angelos and Dan Duquette.  G'head...I'll wait...

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I think you don't see the "excitement" because the team comes to play and expects to win because that's the culture of the team. A culture that Buck created.  The excitement when Buck first got here was compared to the listless clubs that played before him. The way I see it, the team is always engaged and are always on the top step of the dugout watching the game. Look at Tillman last night. He got clobbered, went two innings and was still out there in the dugout right after. 

Now Buck makes his share of mistakes and has flaws. He's far too loyal to his guys and makes some questionable in game decisions. But the fact of the matter is that based on the team's run differential they should be 12 games under .500. They're 2 with the worst starting rotation in Franchise history.  I think Buck gets some credit for that. 

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4 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Agreed, the decision to make is on Duquette! Angelos needs to find someone he trusts and let him do the job. Promote Brady Anderson, bring back Cal as manager and promote Buck to GM. Our front office is bad and handcuffing the GM makes the job impossible plus teams will become hesitant to work with us when they have any other option.

Promote Brady to what?  You have Buck going to GM so where does that put Brady ? Owner?  Brady is responsible for us signing guys like Trumbo and our pitching and bullpen coach leaving.  I would just eliminate Brady from the organization.  

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1 hour ago, TradeAngelos said:

I love when an entire fanbase willfully ignores every single bad in game decision (over and over again) and flaw the manager has, and expresses their undying love for him. Brings a tear to my eye.

Should we build him a statue when he leaves? 

 

 

So we are a couple games under .500.

Based on the talent of our team right now, what record do you think we should have if we had a good manager?

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