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Os requesting offers on Machado

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3 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

How bad would it make the Orioles look if Manny agreed to discuss an extension with a new team after refusing to discuss one with the Orioles for several years?

As long as the Orioles got a big haul in return for Manny I don't think it would matter. 

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1 minute ago, cimota said:

As long as the Orioles got a big haul in return for Manny I don't think it would matter. 

I disagree. That puts a big red mark on their faces. Not good.

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8 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

The Twins may have an opening at 3B...

Yeah, messed up story about Sano.  Totally different forum to discuss, probably, but good on Betsy Bissen for coming forward.

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4 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

I disagree. That puts a big red mark on their faces. Not good.

It depends on the parameters of the deal. If the new team signs him to a $300+ million contract, the common refrain will be that it was out of the Orioles' price range anyway.

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20 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

You can't guarantee a WS 5 years from now anymore than I could keeping Manny in 2017 or 2018. I think some people believe that all re-builds end like it did in Houston. Fact is most rebuilds don't even lead to the playoffs, just another rebuild. 

I agree, if we are keeping Manny in 2018 we need to spend or somehow acquire two above average starters . 

Of course not. But you play the odds over time and you substantially increase the probability that you will win eventually.

All I'm saying is that if they knew Manny wasn't staying here, then there was no need to prolong the inevitable, especially if the gain you get from trading him outweighs the gain you get from keeping him to the bitter end.

 

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21 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

I really don’t understand the downside to allowing a 72 hr window for extension talks. If it gets you the package you want, why not?

Right now Machado is the Orioles' asset with no strings attached.  They have the ability to trade him to whomever they want including teams who may be willing to gamble on extending him.  Give that window, and you grant certainty to another team without gaining anything in return.  Most likely you severely weaken your negotiating position in the process.  Why would you ever do that?

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3 hours ago, Frobby said:

We were in first place at the 2016 trade deadline.   There’s no way we were going to trade Manny then.   And frankly, we weren’t going to trade him after making the playoffs, either.     Now, you can make a very strong case that he should have been shopped at the 2017 trade deadline.    

I do not agree with this.  The GM should be looking multiple years down the road and not just keeping their fingers crossed for the next season.  Also, even though they made the playoffs the team had a ton of weaknesses that needed to be addressed.  You also have to realize that there is NO WAY Britton could improve on the year he had in 2016 and get top value for him, especially after the return on Miller and Chapman and how much the teams used them in the playoffs.  And if you are not extending Manny you have to trade him.

 

Just to show I had these same thoughts back then here is one of a very few threads I started to discuss.  

 

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Why not trade Manny as a 2-part trade. Part 1 would be agreed upon players that would change teams now. There would likely be a primo prospect and a couple of lesser players. Part 2 would be a PTBNL that would be determined by whether or not the team that traded for Manny signs him to a long-term deal. If they do, the O's get another primo prospect. If they don't, they get a lesser prospect. This turns the 72-hour window into a season-long window.

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2 minutes ago, dabirds said:

I do not agree with this.  The GM should be looking multiple years down the road and not just keeping their fingers crossed for the next season.  Also, even though they made the playoffs the team had a ton of weaknesses that needed to be addressed.  You also have to realize that there is NO WAY Britton could improve on the year he had in 2016 and get top value for him, especially after the return on Miller and Chapman and how much the teams used them in the playoffs.  And if you are not extending Manny you have to trade him.

 

Just to show I had these same thoughts back then here is one of a very few threads I started to discuss.  

 

Using that logic the Yankees should have traded Mario several times. 

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27 minutes ago, cimota said:

The ultimate goal is to keep fans interested enough to attend games.  The 2016 season was interesting until the last inning.  I think the goal in 2017 was to be in the playoff hunt all season.  Perhaps we should have traded Manny at last years trade deadline but maybe DD was told by Angelos that they had the money for signing free agent pitchers in the off-season.  Then Angelos had a change of heart once he saw what it would cost.    

So...what was the plan for 2019? The Machado issue had to be dealt with at some point, it's not like the NFL where they could just franchise tag him, he literally walks for a pithy comp pick after this coming season if they don't trade him.

Also keep in mind, it's not like they have to scrap the whole project just because they trade Machado. They could have just spent money elsewhere and traded him for some younger talent for the future.

If this team was better at developing talent, hanging on to Machado too long wouldn't hurt as much. As it is, capitalizing on his return is crucial.

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Just now, osfan83 said:

Using that logic the Yankees should have traded Mario several times. 

Apples and oranges.   The Yankees had much better teams, plus they are willing to spend the money to extend players.  If the extension does not work the extra money is easily absorbed.

That is not the case for us.

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1 minute ago, osfan83 said:

Using that logic the Yankees should have traded Mario several times. 

The Yankees have much deeper pockets than the Orioles do. They can afford to be less efficient (though would be much better off if they were). The O's can't.

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1 hour ago, Mondo Trasho said:

Maybe I'm the crazy one, but I just don't see how making the playoffs in 2017 (or potentially in 2018) would have been worth letting Machado walk for a bare minimum draft pick when we could have traded him for a bigger haul. The ultimate goal is to win a WS at some point, not just make the 2nd WC and plant a victory flag.

First of all, I’m in the trade Manny camp, mainly because I think our chances of making the playoffs are small and that, without a major pitching upgrade that the front office seems unwilling or unable to make, even if we made the playoffs we’d have very little chance of a deep run.

However, I do think that (1) making the playoffs is a goal unto itself even if the team fails to win the World Series, and (2) sacrificing a decent shot at the playoffs in the hopes of improving the odds of winning a World Series down the road is very risky business.    That’s why you don’t often see teams do it.    A lot of things have to fall into place to (1) have a team that truly is WS caliber, and (2) then have that team actually win the WS.     And it isn’t that unusual for a team that isn’t really considered WS caliber to get to or win the WS, by being hot at the right time.     

I also could argue that, given where the Red Sox already were and where the Yankees appeared to be headed in the next few years, it would have been logical to think that 2017 was likely to be our best playoff shot for a while.    The Yankees came on a little faster than expected, mostly thanks to the unanticipated superstar performance by Aaron Judge and a few other guys who came on faster than expected.   But it was far from obvious before the season started that the Yankees would be that strong.   It’s certainly obvious now that they’re going to be in a commanding position for a number of years.    

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I think that the Orioles have a pretty good idea that Machado is not going to sign with anyone until after he is free agent no matter how much he is offered.

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13 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Right now Machado is the Orioles' asset with no strings attached.  They have the ability to trade him to whomever they want including teams who may be willing to gamble on extending him.  Give that window, and you grant certainty to another team without gaining anything in return.  Most likely you severely weaken your negotiating position in the process.  Why would you ever do that?

I just disagree. You are gaining a better return on your asset. If he can’t agree with a team during 72 hrs- you get the asset back, rinse and repeat.  Our position was already weakened by publicly shopping him, then making it known that we aren’t getting the offers we wanted. 

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