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Roy Firestone

What a sad and dreary season this has been...

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It doesn't matter who they have in the minors.  Any of them who develop into stars will be gone when the team eventually goes cheap as this ownership always does.  When they do decide to pour money into a player, it's a flop like Davis.  The fact is that Manny is a once in a few decades type of player that teams occasionally are fortunate enough to draft.  He's the guy you build your franchise around if you are truly interested in winning, which this ownership is not.  They are interested in "entertaining" not winning championships and there's a difference.  

While the Orioles had everyone oohing and ahhing the last few years with lots of homeruns and barely adequate pitching, a team like Houston built up a solid pitching staff along with hitters who get on base and DO NOT strikeout much.  They also don't homer much but they DID win a World Series.  KC similarly won in  2015.  That's the difference between entertaining and winning.  Now, the Orioles don't even entertain, they just lose and often miserably.  When Manny, Schoop and Jones are gone this will barely be a AAA team.  And what happens in a few years if a guy like Mancini really develops into a star?  The chances are pretty good he'll be gone, too. What does that say to other players about the commitment here?  Obviously, not much.  

The Orioles are basically a team which is entertaining for a few seasons but other than that is a feeder to other teams committed to winning.  That's the history of the Angelos ownership.  Cal must have been manna from heaven for him.  We could all follow the streak and forget we weren't winning much of anything.  Well, based on some recent attendances, maybe the fans are wising up at last.  However, I doubt that even regular 4 digit crowds would make a difference to this ownership.  Until they go, this team will occasionally entertain but it will not win championships.

Edited by AndresMora

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Im no apologist for our front office but I think that the depth of this team’s futility would have been hard for anyone to foresee.  Many thought it was likely we would miss the playoffs even with cobb, but it is hard to predict anyone but the most blatant tankers can start this badly.  It is hard to blame this poor of a performance entirely on management, the best i can come up with is aj’s quote “sometimes you suck.”

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13 hours ago, eddie83 said:

You want a GM

-who has won and therefore has not had top draft pics

- has no International spending $

-  has that same owner refuse to deal vets

to build a great system with nothing in his favor? 

Yes he has made mistakes but there are 3 major ways to acquire young talent and he has not been able to work with any of those options. Plus we have some young talent it is just not quite ready yet.  

The international area is something I definitely fault both Angelos and Duquette for. It's asinine. I blame Duquette because he can't convince management otherwise...and I blame Angelos for having backwards beliefs.

I don't believe for a moment that the owner won't deal veterans. That's on Duquette. MacPhail got approval before. It's up to Duquette to show Angelos how poor this team was going to be going into 2018 (hell, even 2017).

Angelos has little to nothing to do with Duquette giving away draft picks like candy and packaging them in deals with relievers that he mismanaged. Hell, giving up draft picks for Jimenez and Gallardo is criminal, IMHO. And how Duquette handled the Fowler debacle? Good grief.

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No way did I see this coming this bad, or think that by April 30th that this team could have buried itself so far it's about over.

Barring a May miracle it is over... Other then the thanks for coming and I'll see ya next year stuff. :$

It's going to be interesting to see if they sell off what they can, and ya know I have no confidence they will even get that right too.

 

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12 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Dempsey said something after the game that was strange.Said Sisco and others don't know how to handle losing properly.

The richest Dempsey quotes come from the losing seasons. He's a legitimate idiot. Sorry to any fans of his.

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13 hours ago, allquixotic said:

Everyone enjoy the memories from Magical 2012 (Ruined By Raul Ibanez), Legit Good 2014 (That Still Choked), and Marginally Decent 2016 (Ruined by Edwin Encarnacion, Buck Showalter and Ubaldo Jimenez).

That's about all the recognition towards being a competitive team the Orioles will be afforded for an entire generation. Welcome to another decade-plus of losing baseball, folks. It starts now.

By far the best representation of Orioles Hangout pessimism I have read in a long while.

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8 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

The international area is something I definitely fault both Angelos and Duquette for. It's asinine. I blame Duquette because he can't convince management otherwise...and I blame Angelos for having backwards beliefs.

I don't believe for a moment that the owner won't deal veterans. That's on Duquette. MacPhail got approval before. It's up to Duquette to show Angelos how poor this team was going to be going into 2018 (hell, even 2017).

Angelos has little to nothing to do with Duquette giving away draft picks like candy and packaging them in deals with relievers that he mismanaged. Hell, giving up draft picks for Jimenez and Gallardo is criminal, IMHO. And how Duquette handled the Fowler debacle? Good grief.

So Duquette should have talked Angelos into the International FA market?   Just like MacPhail and every other former baseball man in the organization was able to talk him into it?     I don't think so.   That is entirely on Peter Angelos who once overruled Pat Gillick, turned out to be right and forever more decided that he knew more than anyone else.

Packaging competitive balance picks along with relievers in order to get someone else to take the contract?   That doesn't sound like Angelos might have had something to do with that?   Hmmmm.    I don't think we know the answer 100% but I'm sure not convinced that Angelos' fingerprints aren't on that one.

The Fowler situation?   Again, we never got the whole story.   Do you really think Duquette handled that situation 100%?    I am skeptical.    I think what happened is that Brady or one of the Angelos boys were involved as well and there was a mixup on the Orioles end as far as thinking a deal was done.    When Fowler's agent ripped the O's, the Orioles organization was very, very quiet.   Duquette was left hung out to dry and he didn't really even go after the agent.   He kind of took one for the team.   I would not be surprised if John Angelos or Brady screwed that one up.

Duquette is not perfect but we'll never know the whole story.   Maybe Duquette can write a book someday.   I'd be interested in that one.

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9 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

The international area is something I definitely fault both Angelos and Duquette for. It's asinine. I blame Duquette because he can't convince management otherwise...and I blame Angelos for having backwards beliefs.

I don't believe for a moment that the owner won't deal veterans. That's on Duquette. MacPhail got approval before. It's up to Duquette to show Angelos how poor this team was going to be going into 2018 (hell, even 2017).

Angelos has little to nothing to do with Duquette giving away draft picks like candy and packaging them in deals with relievers that he mismanaged. Hell, giving up draft picks for Jimenez and Gallardo is criminal, IMHO. And how Duquette handled the Fowler debacle? Good grief.

Did previous GM’s including MacPhail spend Internationally? This is not anything new. Peter hired MacPhail who he respected. Did Andy change his mind?

You cannot compare DD with AM. Andy was trying to rebuild the whole time he was here. Dan was in win mode the whole time he has been here. Angelos has always been reluctant to deal players with any chance to win.  Dan traded Britton last July only to have it shot down for whatever reason. The whole Manny being dealt last offseason started with Dan who basically called out the owner and said what do you want to do here?

Dan has made mistakes. I would never argue with that. He also, like any other GM before him has never been put in a position to succeed. 

The owner of any business sets how things operate. 

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Really is Buck trying to lose?

Just read that he plans on starting Tillman and pushing Bundy and Cashman back giving them an extra day rest

Does any other manager in baseball keep a #5 (should be 5000) on turn to push back his ace?

The weather gives us a gift to not have to use Tillman, and Buck refuses to accept

Does this happen to Kershaw?

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3 hours ago, atomic said:

 

I am willing to bet there a lot more ready than Satander 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, bobmc said:

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o

 

 

Sean Connery: ll I'll take The Rapists for $200.

 

Alex Trebek: llll That's "Therapists" ........ that's "Therapist", not "The Rapists."

 

 

 

o

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11 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Really is Buck trying to lose?

Just read that he plans on starting Tillman and pushing Bundy and Cashman back giving them an extra day rest

Does any other manager in baseball keep a #5 (should be 5000) on turn to push back his ace?

The weather gives us a gift to not have to use Tillman, and Buck refuses to accept

Does this happen to Kershaw?

It seems like a mistake, but perhaps Tillman figured "something" out on his last skip.  He wasn't very good against Cleveland though.  Just a bit lucky with 3 solos.

Maybe Buck knows something we don't.   Or maybe Tillman promised him a piece of his incentive if he earns it.

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30 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Really is Buck trying to lose?

Just read that he plans on starting Tillman and pushing Bundy and Cashman back giving them an extra day rest

Does any other manager in baseball keep a #5 (should be 5000) on turn to push back his ace?

The weather gives us a gift to not have to use Tillman, and Buck refuses to accept

Does this happen to Kershaw?

Of course not. Keyshaw is a winning pitcher. Tillman is a washed up has been. Now is Buck being stubborn or has he been ordered by Angelos/Brady  to keep pitching Tillman?

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