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Pat Kelly

Concerned that Buck and Dan are not that good anymore

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Here’s the thing.  There is no defending the decisions and rationale behind the composition of the 25 man unless the real plan is to tank.   You cannnot talk about how important defense is and attempt to build stronger pitching with an OF with no range or speed,  an infield where he left side positions are WIP - even with a healthy Beckham,  and a right side that features two players with limited range.  This is coupled with a bench that is platoon based, hit first, horrific defensively except for a journeyman 34-year old who is your fastest player but hits like a AAAA middle infielder.   The lineup has one great bat,  a bunch of declining players, 2 trying to find their way after early season injuries (Schoop and Mancini) and a WIP catching tandem that has barely hit all year.  

Do Buck and Dan believe this team is a good product and worth the payroll,  worth watching on TV or going to see?  

We love this team, and we are all fans but everyone wants something to get behind and cheer for...it is almost impossible to be a fan of this team, its leadership and whatever approach seems to be in place now - Buck what exactly are you seeing that is enjoyable?   Dan are you proud of this team?  What exactly would you like to say to the fans?  

In my 40 years of Os fandom I have never seen a more unwatchable, unlikeable, aimless confusing team.  

 

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16 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not concerned about it.  This season is lost and they are both in the last year of their contracts.

I'm only concerned from the stand point that I have no faith in them making the right moves for the future. Honestly, if they just went with defense by benching Davis, putting Mancini at 1B, Trumbo at DH, cut Pedro, and put two good defenders in the corner OF they would win a lot more. The defense and improved morale would be a boost.  

The environment is so bad that just about everyone is "underachieving." 

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The only thing I am concerned about is that the bumbling idiots running this team will mess up on the trade front and find themselves (Shockingly!) in the same position with Schoop next year as they are with Machado.

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6 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

The only thing I am concerned about is that the bumbling idiots running this team will mess up on the trade front and find themselves (Shockingly!) in the same position with Schoop next year as they are with Machado.

I think that would fall on the owner.

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I think that would fall on the owner.

Agreed.  He is the main bumbling idiot running the team.  Deserves tons more blame than DD.

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5 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

Agreed.  He is the main bumbling idiot running the team.  Deserves tons more blame than DD.

This is purely speculation, but I truly believe Brady Anderson is the Beavis to Peter Angelo's Butthead. 

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Really the team can't be any worse than it is now.  If they mess up all the trades and you bring in someone new the team still will be better. I think you could field a better team by dumpster diving.  Winning 60 games a year in MLB Isn't very hard. This team has zero chance of winning 60 games this year. 

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I think everyone agrees  it's a near-certainty that Duquette won't be here after this season. But if you just let him serve out the remainder of his contract (and I'm not sure when it ends, but I'm guessing sometime around the end of the world series), there are three possibilities:

  1. No major roster moves are made during this season.
  2. Duquette's replacement, having had no role in the changes and decisions that have been made, inherits a reconstituted roster.
  3. Duquette's replacement is someone who already is in the organization. The only serious possibility I'm aware of is Brady Anderson.

All these stink, in my opinion. The Orioles should be working on trades, thinking about promotions and acquisitions of talent and releasing dead wood now. They also should have started looking months ago to bring in a talented person from another organization to succeed Duquette, and should be trying to get that person to join the team during the season. (I don't know whether assistant GMs have contracts that would enable rival team owners to insist on compensation for an in-season departure.) The process of finding someone with demonstrated talent who will take the job, along with its now-well-known baggage, probably will take some time. It may already be too late to bring in someone in time to be a part of the changes this teram needs to make.

If, as seems likely, the Orioles aren't even thinking about someone outside the organization to succeed Duquette, I think the owner's seemingly limitless inertia will lead  to an operation headed by Brady.  

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19 minutes ago, atomic said:

Really the team can't be any worse than it is now.  If they mess up all the trades and you bring in someone new the team still will be better. I think you could field a better team by dumpster diving.  Winning 60 games a year in MLB Isn't very hard. This team has zero chance of winning 60 games this year. 

I don't think that's right;. Winning that many games in the AL East would not be so easy.

Anyway,, that's academic. The question is how good the young players now in  the  Orioles' system (including Mancini, Sisco, Hess and Scott), plus the pitchers and SSs/2Bmen/3Bmen added from trades, the draft and other acquisitions will be in a couple or three years. I certainly expect them to be better than replacement-level, but whether they can contend for anything is another, and to me unanswerable, question. But watching them answer that question has to be a lot more fun that what Oriole are doing -- or, increasingly, not doing -- now. Let's get on with it.  

 

 

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The dynamic of this club was originally predicated on strength up the middle. It was constructed entirely by MacPhail (Jones, Schoop, Hardy, Wieters).

With the changing of the guard, we saw the pendulum swing to a lack of focus on defense. Most of the rosters year and year out from Duquette were DH types with little to no versatility. I guess you could call it Duquette's version of a market inefficiency. Instead of trying to find multi-dimensional players, he'd focus on guys that can hit homers....and little else. They were largely cheap and available on shorter contracts.

The problem is...this hurts the pitching staff. And it is susceptible to large droughts since it's so feast or famine. Unless they're hitting against below average pitching and/or in bandboxes, the offense can do very little.

If you look at the construction of his rosters, this has been the case. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Buck values defense, but he's not been given much in the way of defense for the 25 man...let alone the 40 man or organizationally at times.

And that's the annoying thing to me. 

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not concerned about it.  This season is lost and they are both in the last year of their contracts.

Agreed in a sense - I am concerned about after this season and who will be taking over.  I don't know if whoever in charge can make good hires.

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I don't blame Buck. For everything I've seen he's an incredibly intelligent baseball man and has, for his entire Orioles career, made good decisions and won over the fans as a quality manager. People who remember recent history with Mazilli, Trembley, Perlozzo, & Samuel understand how great Buck is at managing a roster. Has he made some decisions that have kicked back on him? Absolutely yes. It would be difficult to find a manager who has not made some incredible mistakes. Buck Showalter is extremely important to this franchise and his replacement would not be half the manager he is. Even if Showalter was clearly done in Baltimore, I challenge his detractors to identify a better candidate for his position. 

Dan Duquette, if you recall, was out of baseball for a long time before coming here. I have difficulty remembering any point in his tenure here where I thought he made an incredibly savvy trade, signed the right person, said the right thing, etc. He's always just been "the GM" and simply "better than Flanaquette". MacPhail is the person that should get the credit for the majority of the current roster construction when it was at it's most successful. With Dan Duquette, all I've seen is poor timing, poor signings, poor trades, and this ridiculous front office power struggle and upheaval (Toronto; Brady Anderson). The most frustrating thing is Dan's unwillingness to fold his cards when the writing is on the wall; too many obviously flawed Orioles teams going for the gold when they're hovering at .500. Too many opportunities missed to cash in old veterans for young chips, and too many players signed to bad contracts that don't pan out. I am so tired of Dan Duquette; and whether his hands are bound by the owner or not, someone's head needs to roll for his entire tenure here. The Orioles had five or six great seasons in spite of Dan Duquette, I firmly believe that.

 

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Agree with all of this.   My frustration is at this point you need to begin to signal things by saying and doing.    When Andy, Buck and even Dan came in they advocated for change, evoked the team history spoke to the fans and media in a direct and honest way.  The players and fans bought in.   This needs to happen again and if they can’t do it they need to go. Time for new or re engaged leadership and we can only hope it’s as good it was in 2012.

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3 hours ago, pastorfan said:

I'm only concerned from the stand point that I have no faith in them making the right moves for the future. Honestly, if they just went with defense by benching Davis, putting Mancini at 1B, Trumbo at DH, cut Pedro, and put two good defenders in the corner OF they would win a lot more. The defense and improved morale would be a boost.  

The environment is so bad that just about everyone is "underachieving." 

I think Dan will be judged in his next gig with what he does with selling the assets before the deadline. 

Id expect him to run the team as if he will be offered an extension.

weve heard it’s his to handle... hopefully it is and he can wheel and deal with minimal interference.

 

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