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George...COME ON

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I think we're on the same page, it's hard to argue with the point you're making.

I just don't understand why if Ramon has such a bad reputation in this area, that pitchers don't shake him off more?

Ever notice Jeremy Guthrie with Ramon?

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You won't get a blast from me. If Loewen is ineffective, they might want to consider using Sherrill against the tough lefties again or in the Jamie Walker role. Johnson can close for me right now, but the problem is replacing Johnson as the main setup guy. Maybe Sherrill can take that role but right now, I don't want him facing a tough right-hander.

Disagree...Give Sherrill the next 3-4 games off...Let him rest his arm.

After that, he needs to close and keep his value up for the deadline.

Then you trade him.

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I agree that Sherrill gets part of the blame, but Hernandez can't possibly think a third straight slider in the exact same spot is a good idea. Not only is it not a good idea anytime, but especially after Sherrill just gave up a home run the previous day on the same pitch in the same location.

A catcher's job is to understand the flow of the game, the hitter, the pitcher, and the situation. A could find about thousand high school catchers who are smarter than to call that pitch in that location. If Sherrill misses on a low inside slider to a right-handed batter he's got a good chance of doing exactly what he just did.

Was it a bad pitch by Sherrill, sure. Is Sherrill pretty darn stupid for not shaking him off, absolutely, but Hernandez just cemented his reputation as a poor pitch caller.

Agree 100%, but doesn't that assume that Ramon was responsible for where Sherrill threw the pitch? Maybe the plan was to put a slider in the dirt, and Sherrill just didn't execute the pitch? :noidea:

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Utterly idiotic pitch selection and placement by Ramon Hernandez. As soon as I saw him go down and in I was like, "No way!"

Sherrill throws two sliders down and in and had guys swinging through high fastballs all day. Olivio is a pull hitter. A Single-A moron catcher knows to call the fastball away after the first two pitches.

Yes, George Sherrill shares the blame for not being smart enough to shake off a ridiculous pitch selection. But I repeat, this is the exact reason why a lot of pitchers don't like being caught by Ramon. His stupid pitch selections are part of his legacy and this one just blew the second straight game.

Tony, I completely agree. I place most of the blame on Ramon. He has got to be smart enough to call a good game, especially in a crucial situation such as this. I pull for all Oriole players, but it has been a long time since I have been as frustrated in someone as much as I am in Ramon this year. Weiters can't make it to the big show fast enough in my opinion.

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I agree that Sherrill gets part of the blame, but Hernandez can't possibly think a third straight slider in the exact same spot is a good idea. Not only is it not a good idea anytime, but especially after Sherrill just gave up a home run the previous day on the same pitch in the same location.

A catcher's job is to understand the flow of the game, the hitter, the pitcher, and the situation. A could find about thousand high school catchers who are smarter than to call that pitch in that location. If Sherrill misses on a low inside slider to a right-handed batter he's got a good chance of doing exactly what he just did.

Was it a bad pitch by Sherrill, sure. Is Sherrill pretty darn stupid for not shaking him off, absolutely, but Hernandez just cemented his reputation as a poor pitch caller.

I don't have a problem with the pitch selection. I wasn't paying that close attention but did Ramon give a location? A slider is meant to appear like a fastball. If he throws it in the dirt he could possibly get the hitter thinking Fastball and swing.

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As far as kicking Sherrill out of the closers role, I don't really think that is necessary yet. Stuff wise, I think he is still has good now as he has been all year. He just has made a couple of bone headed mistakes lately. IMO, his problem has not been with his "stuff", it has been with pitch selection.

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Bedard didn't seem to have a problem with Ramon's game calling last season...

He did shake him off quiet a bit early in the season.

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Shaking off a catcher conveys information to the hitter so this isn't some minor thing to have to constantly "correct" the catcher.

Throwing a slider isn't as easy as you're making it sound here. The pitch is not particularly easy to control in the best of times, let alone in the wet weather of the 9th. Obviously, he was trying to throw it down and in about shoe high.

I have never ascribed to this theory. Suppose, as many are claiming in this thread, that the wrong pitch to throw is a third straight curve. Why would the hitter think that the first finger Ramon drops is 2?

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I don't have a problem with the pitch selection. I wasn't paying that close attention but did Ramon give a location? A slider is meant to appear like a fastball. If he throws it in the dirt he could possibly get the hitter thinking Fastball and swing.

No offense, but if you are going to disagree with me, perhaps you should be freakin' paying close attention. :rolleyes:

Sometimes I think you just try to follow me around and disagree for the sake of disagreeing. in this caase, you just make yourself looking foolish by saying you didn't have a problem with pitch selection (thus disagreeing with my main point), the go about saying you weren't really paying attention and then ask if Ramon gave a location?

Goodness gracious, buy a clue before you post. :eektf::eektf:

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I have never ascribed to this theory. Suppose, as many are claiming in this thread, that the wrong pitch to throw is a third straight curve. Why would the hitter think that the first finger Ramon drops is 2?

From my playing days there is a better chance a fastball is coming if a pitcher shakes off the pitch.

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It's Sherrill's job to shake it off if he doesn't like the call. The pitch should have been in the dirt after Olivo swung at two in a row at his ankles and didn't come close to either one. Same thing yesterday BTW.

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I'm going to respond before Dempsey gets a chance on the post game show. Tony is right. I called my father up and said what is Ramon doing calling the same pitch three times and setting up inside. I'm sure Olivo could tell where it was going. You can't see the catcher when he moves inside and we know all hitters cheat. Yes...Sherrill should have shook off Ramon or deliberately thrown a down and away pitch.

I said when Ramon hit into the DP with the bases loaded in the 8th we needed that run. Did you see the worried look on DT'S face when Sherrill was pitching with one out....before the HR pitch? I hate to say this but DT is starting to act like some other managers we have had before that insist on going to the closer almost every game. I would have given Sherrill a day off after blowing yesterday's game. No.....DT believes in getting them right back out there so they don't think about it too long. SP our former mgr did the same thing with Ray. How many times did we use Walker against lefties and he gave up homeruns? I believe Walker has given up six to lefties so far and we are only halfway through the season. Pena of the Rays has several off of him.

I thought Dt might let Johnson start the ninth and see what he can do. Did I really think that? No ......I was hoping but knew better. The long foul ball that just missed being a HR in the 8th probably scared him and he decided to go to the well one more time. I hope we still win this game.

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