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George...COME ON

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Demper just agreed with you, Tony.

And if I had a nickel for every time Jim Palmer shook off a call from Dempsey, I could stack them to the moon.

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Look who's making it personal. Right. Frobby said basically the same thing I did but nobody said one thing to him. No problem. I'll take the heat. It's not like I'm a mushy mister sensitive like some people.

I said this on the first page...

But if Ramon has such a reputation of pitchers not wanting to pitch to him then why don't they take some initiative and shake off a bad pitch selection?

Ultimately the blame has to go to George tonight, he didn't make the pitch. I think he'd tell you that as well. Not only was it a poor pitch selection, but it was right down the middle, knee high.

Interesting how that got no response from you, but you piggy back on Frobby's thought to throw people under the bus for complaining... because we would have anyway even if the FB had been thrown.

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If I see 3 of the same pitch, and I miss the first 2, you better be damned sure I'm hitting the 3rd one, especially one up in the zone like it was. That is a meatball. Sherrill doesn't have an extremely fast slider. His game is all deception, you take away deception, and you basically have a guy like Steve Trachsel. Batting practice.

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Especially the night after he did the same thing and got burnt.

Some people need to wake up and smell the coffee. I was making the same argument yesterday and got similar reactions.

It's one thing to have a different opinion, but baiting people into an argument with stupid ass statements like "the same people would be complaining if he threw a fastball" is just ridiculous.

Exactly. He knew what he was doing and what the reaction would be. He's just playing coy now and trying to make himself out to be some victim.

This is where I learned to walk away though because I can see this just spiraling out of control.

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Well, far be in from me to defend Ramon. I've always said that I don't think he understands very much about being a C, and that Javy was much better at behind-the-plate aspects of the game.

But prior to each of the last 2 pitches, Ramon did exactly the same thing: he patted by the ground indicating inside and low-low-low and put the target inside and low-low-low. My impression at the time is that he wanted another pitch that would end up at the guy's feet, just like the previous one. Had the pitch gone there, he wouldn't have hit it. The guy had just swung at a pitch that was not in the strike zone and was not even hittable. So, I believe that Ramon was calling for another pitch just like that one.

After all, if everybody knows you follow up two sliders with a FB, then doesn't the hitter know that too? Isn't the hitter included in "everybody"? So, what's wrong with fooling him about that? IMO, it was not a bad idea to throw another non-hittable pitch to see if the guy would be a dope and swing at it again. The only single problem I saw is that where the pitch actually went was somewhere between a foot-and-a-half and two-feet away from where the target was. The pitch was not even supposed to be hittable, but it ended up very much where it wasn't supposed to be, and the guy hit it a mile. So, I don't think it was a brain-mistake, I think it was an execution mistake.

Edited by rshackelford

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It's amazing how a lot of the homers in the game thread are already chalking this up as Sherrill being overworked and having a dead arm.

He failed to execute, two nights in a row now. And all year he's run into trouble due to his wildness and tendency to give up fly balls. I kinda sorta saw this coming.

Any other year I wouldn't say this, but with Johnson pitching as well as he has I think he's our best option at closer this year. And this isn't a reactionary opinion, i've thought this for a few weeks now.

I love having Sherrill on our team and I think he's a key guy in the clubhouse and flat breezy has been fun and all, but I just don't think he's the ideal guy to be in the closer role.

Blast away...

No blast from me. George has had a terrific season, but in the end, hes still a setup man turned into closer. Its just not his natural place to pitch in.

Johnson's stuff is shutdown nasty. He could close . Period. No one would dispute that. The question now becomes, "Will Sherrill view it as a demotion or a logical choice?". I would hope the latter. George has already logged nearly as many innings as he ever had in a baseball season..and were only half way done!!!!

. Matt Albers is down because of overwork perhaps. Why not try the shift? We change batting orders, and make defensive changes. Why not flip flop the roles and see what happens.?

PS: We arent gonna win anything, but our job is to learn about what we have, and what we dont have.

And we still dont have a shortstop..especially a weak defensive one, but with occasional pop..because now even Cintron is DL bound.The birds have officially taken a shot the belly.

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I dunno, I find it kinda funny that Ramon, one of the boards favorite whipping boys, is responsible for this one...and not one of the Golden Children, Sherrill.

Hey, I don't like him either...I'm not going to say whether he calls a good game or not, but it doesn't remain that the slider was up and was pretty flat.

Hernandez has steered Sherrill through a lot of shaky 9th innings this year and I'm willing to bet that he hasn't gotten a lick of credit on here for it. Yet when Sherrill blows two in a row, all of a sudden he's being held out to dry.

Maybe it's part of it, but the past two games have had two fat, fat pitches by Sherrill and there's no denying it.

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And if I had a nickel for every time Jim Palmer shook off a call from Dempsey, I could stack them to the moon.

Palmer shook EVERYONE off. That's not a fair comp, Rick.

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I'm not so worried about his arm, as about his confidence. He looked sharp both last night and tonight but for those two hangers.

The truth of the matter is he doesn't have outstanding stuff and he has put to many runners on which at some point is going to catch up with you when you make mistakes. With that said, I like Sherrill because of his confidence and mental toughness. It's been his best assest so far IMO. Any man at some point is going has the ability to doubt himself and lose confidence but I think Sherrill has the right mind set to bounce back from this and continue to be solid.

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I said this on the first page...

Interesting how that got no response from you, but you piggy back on Frobby's thought to throw people under the bus for complaining... because we would have anyway even if the FB had been thrown.

Very interesting indeed. Paranoia will destroy ya!

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If you think Frobby and you wrote the same thing, I don't know what to tell you. Your post had a goal and it had very little to do with Sherrill IMO. You were aiming to piss off someone and you did. Congrats, but it wasn't me. I just laughed at your silliness. I didn't start this fight and I'm not trying to continue it, but I'm not going to let you walk on me either.

And you just keep right on acting as if I'm sensitive. Once again, you're the guy whining in a thread TWICE about others. I called a spade a spade in my previous post. I described your actions pretty accurately IMO. Live with it buddy. You seem to be the guy who can't be wrong in this thread. Said the same thing as Frobby. LOL, that is good stuff. Poor little victim...

You're a funny guy. Keep reading what isn't there. I state my opinions. Live with that buddy!

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I dunno, I find it kinda funny that Ramon, one of the boards favorite whipping boys, is responsible for this one...and not one of the Golden Children, Sherrill.

Hey, I don't like him either...I'm not going to say whether he calls a good game or not, but it doesn't remain that the slider was up and was pretty flat.

Hernandez has steered Sherrill through a lot of shaky 9th innings this year and I'm willing to bet that he hasn't gotten a lick of credit on here for it. Yet when Sherrill blows two in a row, all of a sudden he's being held out to dry.

Maybe it's part of it, but the past two games have had two fat, fat pitches by Sherrill and there's no denying it.

Things that make you go "Hmmmmm"...

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The pitch out was very likely called from the bench.

Like I said maybe it was. I didn't see any look or motion to the dugout on it...I would believe it was as well but I'm thinking Ramon might have called this.

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This game will not be forgotten.

Disappointing....Disappointing......Disappointing. I am so mad right now I could scream and I'm a dedicated fan like most on here. We were out managed tonight. Sherrill should not have been in the game. Period. Sarfate drops the ball and balks in an important run. How does that happen? He is so nervous as I have said on here numerous times it's gotten to be ridiculous.

Dempsey had good comments second guessing pitch selection but asked why Ramon was sitting up inside when Olivo swung and missed at two outside pitches? Ramon probably thought he would be lookng for another outside pitch and thought he could fool him asking for a pitch down and inside. If he didn't move inside so quick and hadn't allowed the hitter to figure out where the pitch is going to be thrown and the pitch had been almost down in the dirt it might have worked.

One of our worst losses. Tampa won again beating the Red Sox and the Yankees lost. Just in... Salazar hit a three run home for Norfolk tonight. Mora looked pathetic striking out in the last inning. I would have rather have Salazar batting than Mora. I'm sure I am not alone with that rain of thought. Whoever said to forget about trading Mora should think again. We will move him if it's only for a prospect and we have to eat a lot of his contract. I think there are some teams that may have interest in him. His defense is still good.

DT was excellent tonight after the game. A reporter asked him about Sherrill hanging two curve balls for home runs and whether he had noticed him hanging any before? He said there were three....one also to Uribe in Chicago.

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