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George...COME ON

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I wanna know what the hell Ramon was thinkin?

He just swung at two sliders in the dirt...a fastball up in the zone, either freezes him, or gets a girly swing

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I wanna know what the hell Ramon was thinkin?

He just swung at two sliders in the dirt...a fastball up in the zone, either freezes him, or gets a girly swing

Sherill pretty much accepted the blame for not locating the pitch. Ramon is the whipping boy this year, but when the pitcher assumes responsibility, go ahead and put the onus on the pitcher, ya know?

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Live by one-run games, die by one-run games...

It seems to come down to Sherrill two nights in a row, but these narrow margins are a team-wide responsibility. He's gonna blow saves, even the best do, and we can't expect our lucky run of one-run wins to extend indefinitely.

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Sherill pretty much accepted the blame for not locating the pitch. Ramon is the whipping boy this year, but when the pitcher assumes responsibility, go ahead and put the onus on the pitcher, ya know?

Tomayto - Tomaaaato really....

I don't care who to blame...in the count, throwing a 3rd slider/curveball is not logical...give the batter something else...something that changes his eye level, and has to make him increase his timing of his swing...

It could of been up and in...up...or in....I can almost guarantee a fastball freezes him.

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Tomayto - Tomaaaato really....

I don't care who to blame...in the count, throwing a 3rd slider/curveball is not logical...give the batter something else...something that changes his eye level, and has to make him increase his timing of his swing...

It could of been up and in...up...or in....I can almost guarantee a fastball freezes him.

When you can guarantee it, maybe the O's will have a place for you on their staff. :)

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That's how I see it. I'm not saying Hernandez made a good call, but no question Sherrill didn't come close to executing the pitch.

That's fair, and I certainly agree. The pitcher is like the pilot of an aircraft out there. Ultimately he bares the responsibility for the pitch he throws and how he executes the pitch. However, this pilot was given some bad advice from the control tower. :D

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Well, ultimately that's what it was, wasn't it? A crappy pitch.

I'm just simply saying that Sherrill blows two in a row on two crappy pitches and all of a sudden Hernandez is the whipping boy for bad pitch selection. While that may be true, he's never gotten a lick of credit on here for contributing anything positive on the field which includes steering Sherrill through shaky 9th's time and time again and doing a decent job of handling what is mainly a young staff this year. How come Hernandez doesn't get any credit for Johnson or Sarfate this year?

Hey, it's not a secret that this board has it's favorites...and with Sherrill as one of them with the whole "flat breezey" thing and Ramon not being one with his lack of hustle, it's not a stretch for me to call it like I see it.

I'm sorry if you don't agree with that take, but I find it interesting how Ramon is taking a hit on todays game from out of leftfield when he's never been given credit for calling a good game during a good pitching performance this year, but all of a sudden gets flak for his part in a blown save.

I'm pretty certain I've been critical of Ramon's pitch selection in the past so I hope you don't mean my comments are from "left field." Also, trust me when I say I have it on good measure that at least some pitchers do not like throwing to Hernandez because of his poor pitch selections.

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I'll say this about Sherrill. IF MGMT DOESN'T BELIEVE HE CAN CLOSE LONG TERM and/or they feel he is significantly overperforming, they should be looking to trade him hard because of his potential artificial "closer" value. My 2 cents.

Well, one more cent, I really like the guy. What a stand up dude. I hope he does well for whomever he pitches for over the remainder of his career.

I agree on both parts if the Orioles can get value for him. However, I love the fact that Sherrill is a stand up guy. He's a guy with great deception who made two bad pitches on two consecutive games to two poor teams. It hurts for everyone, but it sure would be nice if he'd have someone back there who wouldn't be calling pitches where if he misses, the chances of him hanging one is great.

Basically Hernandez failed to put Sherrill in the past position possible, especially on an 0-2 pitch. Just because a guy's scouting report says he struggles on breaking balls does not mean you call them three consecutive times in the same location. Afterall, the guy is a big leaguer and he will make adjustments if he knows or thinks he knows what's coming.

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Tomayto - Tomaaaato really....

I don't care who to blame...in the count, throwing a 3rd slider/curveball is not logical...give the batter something else...something that changes his eye level, and has to make him increase his timing of his swing...

It could of been up and in...up...or in....I can almost guarantee a fastball freezes him.

It really isn't a case of Tomayto-Tomahto. Had he located the slider where he wanted it to go, the odds are good that Olivo would have either taken the 0-2 pitch, or swung trying to protect the plate. Either of which probably wouldn't have had the same result of not placing the slider in the optimal location, and in fact, having the slider end up in probably the worst possible location.

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No, don't get me wrong. Ramon is not a good game caller. By any stretch of the imagination.

But when the pitcher flat out says he didn't locate the pitch at all, well, would it have mattered had he called something different? Well, it might have, but I'm playing devil's advocate. What if Ramon did call for the up and away fastball looking for the chase, and George doesn't locate it and it grooves? We're possibly looking at the same outcome...especially with a guy with a disturbing FB/GB ratio.

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Live by one-run games, die by one-run games...

It seems to come down to Sherrill two nights in a row, but these narrow margins are a team-wide responsibility. He's gonna blow saves, even the best do, and we can't expect our lucky run of one-run wins to extend indefinitely.

You mean they don't have the magic intangibles that'll allow them to win 75% of one-run games indefinitely? Doggone it, I've hitched my whole belief system to intangibles, and now this?

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"I'd rather see one that cares than doesn't"

- Dave Trembley

I agree with Dave here... I presume you do as well. A stark contrast between this type of player, and one that would have said something along the lines of "yeah, I blew it, oh well...... "

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Sherrill should have accepted responsibility. I'm not sure that anyone feels differently. This isn't a binary situation though. It isn't either Sherrill is responsible or Ramon is responsible. Responsibility is shared between pitcher and catcher and it should be. Ultimately, the pitcher is the guy who accepted the suggestion and executed the pitch so he is surely the bearer of the larger portion of responsibility, but that doesn't mean the catcher is exempt from scrutiny.

Ramon called a poor sequence of pitches in that at bat and during several others during the game IMO. I'm not whipping him because I don't like him. I'm calling it like I see it. I've explained thoroughly why his pitch sequences were suspect in the other thread. If I'm wrong in my logic on them, I'd like someone to present the flaws in my logic. I'll happily debate about the logic and admit I'm wrong if proven wrong. Otherwise, it'd be nice to stop being dismissed with a wave of the hand and a statement that says "oh, you guys are too illogical and unintelligent to realize that you've slipped in a crowd mentality". That comes across as a fairly dismissive, condescending stance to me.

I completey agree and think that pitch selection is more times than not the downfall in a game for us and is probably the most overlooked subtlety in our games. Sunday nights selection was also stupid. The only way Belliard hits it out is down the LF line... so why would you throw an offspeed inside pitch? Hopefully there's a learning process that is taking place here.

Edited by Fan4Life

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I was at the O's - D'Back's game in (I belive) 2002 in a friends seats about 2 rows behind the D'Backs dugout. After the game, Luis Gonzalez tossed his batting gloves into the stands and they happened to come right to me. One of the best moments I've ever had at a baseball game. It was great to get a real pair of MLB batting gloves, much less the fact that they were Luis Gonzalez, who 8 months earlier, had made the game winning hit to beat the MFY's in Game 7 of the World Series. It was an awesome experience. Gotta imagine the fans tonight felt the same way.

Orioles players have been relieving themselves of "unlucky" batting gloves into the first row of section 22 during several games I've been at this season. Only thing is, our seats are in the sixth row! So close...and yet so far! :(

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I kept saying, "Waste at least 2 pitches here...."

Then the replay of Sunday. Hanging the slider was a physical error, but calling for it a third time was also a mistake IMO, though not a horribly egregious one.

I am getting more and more impatient with Ramon Hernandez behind the plate. He is lazy. I've seen way too many ole's and he takes a long time to get rid of the ball. Thank God we have one of the best overall position prospects in the majors a step or two away. We desperately need a take charge catcher.

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