Jump to content
weams

Orioles Deal Gausman/O'Day to Braves - Schoop to Brewers

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

So, to recap (hope I didn't miss anything):

For Gausman we received--

  • 2.5 million in International Slot $
  • 20-year old 3B Jean Carlos Encarnacion, R/R, 6'3 195
  • 23-year old Catcher Brett Cumberland, S/R, 5'11 205, Draft: 2016, Braves, 2nd rd. (76th overall) College: California
  • 23-year old LHSP Bruce Zimmerman, L/L, 6'3 215, Draft: 2017, Braves, 5th rd. College: Mt. Olive & Towson U. (Born in Baltimore, MD) Here's an interesting read on him
  • 23-year old RHRP Evan Phillips, R/R 6'2 215, Draft: 2015 Braves 17th rd., College: UNC Wilmington (Born in Salisbury, MD)

 

For Schoop we received--

  • 22-year old RHSP Luis Ortiz, R/R, 6'3 230, Draft: 2014 Rangers 1st rd. (30th overall) Sanger HS (CA)
  • 18-year old SS Jean Carmona, S/R, 6'1 183, Signed out of the Dominican Repulublic
  • 27-year old Inf. Jonathan Villar, R/R, 6'1 215, Signed out of the Dominican Repulublic

To rank them in our system on the fly,

Victor Victor Mesa 1

Ortiz 8-10

Carmona/Encarnacion 11-15

Cumberland 20-25

Zimmerman 30

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

So Archer landed Meadow AND Glasnow. Both highly touted prospects. You're telling me Gausman isn't good enough to land at least an equivalent of one of those players? 

Yep.

Gausman isn't that good.  We'd like him to be and we have a big fear of trading someone with a big fastball turning into the next Arietta.  But I don't believe the market was that great for him and getting 4 guys is the best we can do.

Check Archer's FIP and then look at Gausman's.  Archer is a 200 inning guy, Gausman isn't.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

There's no proof that having O'Day not included would have made the trade better.   That's what he'd like to believe, but there's no proof that it's the case.

 

Walk me through the logic of this?  

You're saying the return we got for Gausman is what we would have gotten.  Then we asked the Braves if they would also take O'Day, and the Braves said, "Yeah, we're feeling generous.  Throw him in too."  

The Orioles would have to give consideration for the Braves taking O'Day.  There's no other way to look at it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, it's obvious that we received a lesser package because of O'Day's inclusion, isn't it?  Do we really think the package got better once O'Day was included?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

So if I understand you correctly you're upset that:

We traded a pitcher we all overvalued and who most likely wasn't going to reach his full potential in Baltimore and a broken, expensive reliever for:

2.5 million in international money

4 prospects

And why is this bad?

Man, are you being intentionally obtuse?  It's really not that hard to understand what he's saying.  No O'Day in deal = better prospect return.  Better prospect return = faster and better rebuild.  Faster and better rebuild = return to winning faster.  Having O'Day on the team next year wouldn't have made us better or worse.  You just let him play out his deal like Trumbo and then move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

Gausman is making $5.6m this year. He probably gets $7-8m next year and $10-$12m the following in arbitration.

So basically ~19-22m saved. Gausman is probably a 3-4 WAR guy per year. So the Braves are getting something like 7-10 WAR. Plenty of surplus value with what he'll earn.

Those players coming back from the Braves just doesn't add up.

3-4 WAR per year? How do you come up with that? He was 2.1 in 2014, 1.5 in 2015, 3.0 in 2016, 2.5 in 2017 and 1.3 this year (so that project out to 2.0). So for the last 5 years, he's averaged 2.08 WAR.

Have you ever watched Gausman pitch? He still can't consistently throw a fastball away to a right handed batter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, ISU94 said:

What? Lol.

JCE and Cumberland def are.

Maybe in the 15-20 range for JCE.  He's got serious plate discipline issues.  

Cumberland is a 23 year old bat first catcher who spent most of the year hitting .236 at High A.  Just promoted to Double A. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Then you hold off and trade him after the season. I said all along they should trade Gausman and Schoop IF they get the right offer. It wasn't a Machado / Britton situation where they had to be traded now. 

Villar is making 2.5M this year. Under control for 2 more years.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

There's no proof that having O'Day not included would have made the trade better.   That's what he'd like to believe, but there's no proof that it's the case.

In other words:

Gausman to the Braves for good prospects

Gausman and O'Day to the Braves for not as good prospects

Keep in mind as of earlier this afternoon there were two other suitors for Gausman. That was widely reported.  The Braves weren't the only team to tango with.

So DD intentionally took worse prospects from the Braves in order to get rid of O'Day?  I find it hard to believe and wildly speculative.  

They are shedding over 10M in salary with O'Day's contact.

At least some of that 10M was accounted for in the return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

To rank them in our system on the fly,

Victor Victor Mesa 1

Ortiz 8-10

Carmona/Encarnacion 11-15

Cumberland 20-25

Zimmerman 30

 

Cumberland was a top 150 guy prior to the season. That'd be surprising if he's that low.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we had a deal with the Braves for Gausman that gave us a top 10 prospect from the Braves. Does anyone really think we turned that down to shed O'Day's salary. Makes no sense at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a huge fan of Braves deal but I tho k we all are collectively underestimating the value of the market on international slots right now.

Having said that, he better get the big fish or it may cost DD his job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like Matt K, and if he thinks we did well, I feel a bit better.  The Schoop trade excites me.  He's a good player but he's been on fire lately, and I think that helped us get Carmona and Ortiz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Orioles Information


Orioles News and Information

Daily Organizational Boxscores
News

Tony's Takes

Orioles Roster Resource

Orioles Prospect Information

2018 End of Season Top 30 Prospects List

Prospect Scouting Reports

Statistics

2019 Orioles Stats

2019 Orioles Minor League Stats

Baseball Savant Stats






  • Posts

    • Well that just reinforces that Houston does that which we can not do, and therefore is a poor example to follow. Don’t trade draft picks, do get active in the international market, draft big, sign kids, and trade in year four.
    • Actually, we want a sport that looks like baseball.
    • o   This was a great song, from March of 2009 ........            HOW 'BOUT DEM O'S ??? ))  *   If you've been holdin' out for more than 10 years now, just hopin' things'll get better ...... And if you're worried that you won't make it through another looooooong September ...... And if you don't know we can turn it around without Brooksie, 'Cakes, or Cal ...... Well we got Roberts, and Markakis ...... Adam Jones and Cesar Izturis ...... Come on Bawlmer ...... Come on Orioles ...... Come on Birds. We got Guthrie, Uehara ...... Aubrey Huff, Luke Scott, Melvin Mora ...... Come on Bawlmer ...... Come on Orioles ...... Come on Birds. How 'Bout Dem O's ??? How Dem Oooooooorioles ??? How 'Bout Dem O's ??? How Dem Oooooooorioles ??? We got Wiggy, Freel and Pie ...... Walker, Johnson, Chris Ray, and Flat Breezy ...... Come on Andy ...... Come on Trembley ...... Come on Birds. How 'Bout Dem O's ??? How Dem Oooooooorioles ??? How 'Bout Dem O's ??? How Dem Oooooooorioles ??? We got Wieters, and Rich Hill and, Arrieta, and Matusz, and Tillman ...... Come on Bawlmer ... Come on Orioles ... Come on Birds. How 'Bout Dem O's ??? How Dem Oooooooorioles ??? How 'Bout Dem O's ??? How Dem Oooooooorioles ??? How 'Bout Dem O's ??? How Dem Oooooooorioles ??? How 'Bout Dem O's ??? How Dem Oooooooorioles ??? O, O, Ohhh ...... O, O, Ohhh, O ...... O, Ohhh, O ...... O, Ohhh ...... Come on Bawlmer ...... Come on Orioles ...... Come on Birds. O - R ...... I - O ...... L - E ....... and S ....... Come on Bawlmer ...... Come on Orioles ...... Come on Birds. O, O, Ohhh ...... O, O, Ohhh O ...... O, Ohhh, O ...... O, Ohhh ...... Come on Bawlmer ...... Come on Orioles ...... Come on Birds.     23-PERSON TOTAL: )) 0 Current Orioles, 7 Former Orioles, 13 Retired, 1 Dead (Plus Dave Trembley and Andy MacPhail)    o
    • This is not a contending team...Don't be fooled by a good start. The only problem is they may be able to hang around with the real Cobb and veteran performances by Milone, and LeBlanc might prevent them from being terrible
    • I don't feel the need to see much more of DJ Stewart, quite frankly.  I'm not a Mountcastle believer but if I had to pick between the two, I'd rather see Mountcastle.   That said, I don't think Mountcastle comes up anytime soon.  
    • o   Is that over all runs, or runs-per-game ??? I ask because 1981 was a strike-shortened season, so if it was overall runs then the citation would go back even further (if you exclude strike-shortened season.)   o
    • It's still way too soon to be talking like this but it's still fun. Maybe it's a perfect storm for a team like the Orioles to get into an expanded playoff format and make some noise.  And with the way the schedule is set up, it seems like it could be possible.  The Marlins were bad to begin with, now they're having a hard time to field a team.  We should be able to beat up on them, but so will everyone else.  Boston doesn't look good, despite having some good offensive weapons.   So...In the words of Lou Brown, maybe we can "hang around for a while and see if we can give 'em all a nice big $#*%burger to eat!"
  • Popular Contributors

  • Popular Now

×
×
  • Create New...