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Trace21230

Tired of Trembley's Quick Hook

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Absolutely, you shut it down mentally. WHen that guy comes in in the bottom of the inning and you shake his hand, tell him good job and his night is over you don't go back 5 min later and tell him oh go get em killer.

Well, do you or Pickles know DT said that to Guthrie? No.

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I can't say what you are saying doesn't have some merit but the bottom line is we had a 3 run lead with our 2 big guys ready and they didn't do the job. It's not like Trembley asked somebody to do something they are not capable of. We are playing losing baseball right now and no matter what Trembley does it probably won't work.

Again, i am not saying DT lost us this game by any means....I understand the decision to go to JJ...I am just saying that when we got the 3 run lead, DT should have altered his thinking and stuck with Guthrie.

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First of all, it's ridiculous to think that a closer should save every single game. There's not a closer in the league who does that.

Secondly, not every one of Sherrill's blown saves led to a loss (the game against the Pirates, for instance), so your math is wrong.

Paul there you go with that Statistical stuff again.:scratchchinhmm: His eyes say we would have 6 wins.:eektf:

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You've obviously never played and that isn't- thank the sweet lord above- how Trembley manages. He's honest, upfront, and communicates with his players- about when they'll be playing, when they won't be playing, about their roles, and about when they'll go into and come out of games. You don't tell a guy he's done for the night and then put him back into the game. That isn't fair to him mentally or physically.

And yes, this is hindsight, because if JJ and GS go out there and slam the door shut, like they should have and like they've done mostly all year, you wouldn't have muttered a peep about how JG should have pitched the 8th. All we would have heard from you is how he gave up too many FBs and is a back of the rotation- at best- starter.

You are showing yourself to be more clueless than normal...I have, without question, talked about moves I didn't agree with that still turned out fine.

So please, spare me your normal bs and go troll someone else.

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Paul there you go with that Statistical stuff again.:scratchchinhmm: His eyes say we would have 6 wins.:eektf:

Whether it's 5 or 6 changes nothing about the wrongheadedness of DT yanking Guthrie in the 7th after 100 pitches.

Try and understand that if you can tear yourself away from Baseball Digest for a moment. :scratchchinhmm:

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Well, do you or Pickles know DT said that to Guthrie? No.

No, but like I said we don't know if Guthrie pulled himself either. I suspect it was one of the two and honestly I'd have to guess that with a 1 run lead going into the 8th Trembley probably did tell Guthrie his night was over and he was turning the 8th over to Johnson.

I agree that the bullpen is overworked and somehow we got to get the starters to go further in games. Again though, consider the situation. We've lost 4 in a row and been struggling for nearly two weeks. We desperatelt need to salvage a game before heading into Boston. Winning this game was very crucial and DT played it as such by going to his lights out 8th inning guy. I just don't see how people can look at the stats or honestly even have a gut feeling that going to Johnson was the wrong move.

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Well, mark it down because I agree with Sports Guy.

Guthrie has earned the role of "ace" on this team and he was not treated like one by Trembley tonight.

If Guthrie can't go into the 8th inning at 100 pitches, who on this team can? If the answer is nobody, then say hello to Olney's prediction coming true.

Your memory is just completely off on this subject. Trembley has shown incredible faith in Guthrie all season, and in fact his most common mistake is that he sticks with Guthrie too long. Some examples:

April 17 vs. White Sox: Guthrie is close to 100 pitches in the seventh inning, but Trembley sticks with him. Guthrie promptly gives up a two-run homer that puts the O's behind, and he has to be taken out of the game

April 22 at Seattle: Tie game with two outs in the bottom of the 8th and the bases loaded. Guthrie is over 110 pitches, but Trembley sticks with him. He gives up a two-run single to Jose Vidro and the Orioles lose.

June 2 vs. Red Sox: Guthrie carries a 2-1 lead into the seventh. With one on and one out, he is close to 120 pitches. Trembley sticks with him, and Guthrie gives up a game-tying RBI double to Kevin Cash.

Guthrie has routinely shown this season that he is a lot more hittable when he's past the 100-pitch mark. Trembley made exactly the right decision tonight-- he got Guthrie out of the game at the right time instead of two batters too late. It's not his fault that JJ and Sherrill blew the game.

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Your memory is just completely off on this subject. Trembley has shown incredible faith in Guthrie all season, and in fact his most common mistake is that he sticks with Guthrie too long. Some examples:

April 17 vs. White Sox: Guthrie is close to 100 pitches in the seventh inning, but Trembley sticks with him. Guthrie promptly gives up a two-run homer that puts the O's behind, and he has to be taken out of the game

April 22 at Seattle: Tie game with two outs in the bottom of the 8th and the bases loaded. Guthrie is over 110 pitches, but Trembley sticks with him. He gives up a two-run single to Jose Vidro and the Orioles lose.

June 2 vs. Red Sox: Guthrie carries a 2-1 lead into the seventh. With one on and one out, he is close to 120 pitches. Trembley sticks with him, and Guthrie gives up a game-tying RBI double to Kevin Cash.

Guthrie has routinely shown this season that he is a lot more hittable when he's past the 100-pitch mark. Trembley made exactly the right decision tonight-- he got Guthrie out of the game at the right time instead of two batters too late. It's not his fault that JJ and Sherrill blew the game.

My memory is just fine; it's yours that seems to have some holes in it. The bullpen was pitching at a different level in April and even on June 2nd than it has been the past two weeks.

You don't pluck certain statistics in a vacuum to fit your argument, you've got to look at the big picture and that's where most statisticians fail miserably--they cherry pick stats to support their arguments instead of analyzing the situation based on what they see.

Our present bullpen has not been reliable lately. It was a mistake to go to them in the 8th. The game results prove that, as do the numerous losses over the past few weeks.

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It's been very frustrating watching this team the past two weeks. I guess I was spoiled in April May and June.

Man, you're coming apart at the seams after a 5-game losing streak.

The only other time we had one was in May, and in May we had *two* of them.

As I recall, you were a lot of fun then too. However, I haven't researched that, I'm just making observations and commentary ;-)

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My memory is just fine; it's yours that seems to have some holes in it. The bullpen was pitching at a different level in April and even on June 2nd than it has been the past two weeks.

You don't pluck certain statistics in a vacuum to fit your argument, you've got to look at the big picture and that's where most statisticians fail miserably--they cherry pick stats to support their arguments instead of analyzing the situation based on what they see.

Our present bullpen has not been reliable lately. It was a mistake to go to them in the 8th. The game results prove that, as do the numerous losses over the past few weeks.

I'm the last person you'd call a stat guy but this post is pure:bs:

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I'm the last person you'd call a stat guy but this post is pure:bs:

Gee, I agree with SG one time and El Gordo comes at me with a totally unsupported conclusory criticism. I'm shocked!

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My memory is just fine; it's yours that seems to have some holes in it.

Huh? I actually consulted the game log. Proven, documented evidence. I'm not going on memory here. Are you saying that the game log has a faulty memory?

The bullpen was pitching at a different level in April and even on June 2nd than it has been the past two weeks.

What does this have to do with the games I presented? They were evidence of times that Trembley stuck with Guthrie and was burned for it. How does that involve the bullpen at all?

You don't pluck certain statistics in a vacuum to fit your argument, you've got to look at the big picture and that's where most statisticians fail miserably--they cherry pick stats to support their arguments instead of analyzing the situation based on what they see.

For the record, I did "see" those games where Trembley stuck with Guthrie too long and got burned. With my own two eyes, even. Which is why I fully supported his decision to take out Guthrie tonight before he fell apart again.

What other games do you remember this year where Guthrie was taken out "too early" and the O's lost? I'm having trouble finding any.

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Huh? I actually consulted the game log. Proven, documented evidence. I'm not going on memory here. Are you saying that the game log has a faulty memory?

What does this have to do with the games I presented? They were evidence of times that Trembley stuck with Guthrie and was burned for it. How does that involve the bullpen at all?

For the record, I did "see" those games where Trembley stuck with Guthrie too long and got burned. With my own two eyes, even. Which is why I fully supported his decision to take out Guthrie tonight before he fell apart again.

What other games do you remember this year where Guthrie was taken out "too early" and the O's lost? I'm having trouble finding any.

So you are honestly going to sit here and tell me that because Guthrie had three bad late innings in April and June that TONIGHT, which is July 10th over a month later, he should have been yanked in the aftermath of striking out two and getting a popup in the 7th? If so, thanks for reminding why slavish adherence to statistical matchups is pure hogwash.

I saw the games you mentioned. I also saw tonight's game. Did you?

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So you are honestly going to sit here and tell me that because Guthrie had three bad late innings in April and June that TONIGHT, which is July 10th over a month later, he should have been yanked in the aftermath of striking out two and getting a popup in the 7th? If so, thanks for reminding why slavish adherence to statistical matchups is pure hogwash.

I saw the games you mentioned. I also saw tonight's game. Did you?

Yes. Every batter of it.

You didn't answer my last question. What other games this year has Trembley given Guthrie a quick hook and gotten burned? You've said that it's something Trembley has done all season, so surely you can name a few examples.

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Is it me, or is Tremblay sucking the life out of the bullpen. It seems like he has already made his mind up that when a starting pitcher runs into any kind of trouble after the 5th inning, no matter how minor, its time to go to the bullpen.

He's wearing guys out and over-using the entire bullpen, and not requiring the starting pitchers to toughen up and made a big pitch now and then later in the game.

I know it sounds like 20/20 hindsight, but when he pulled Cabreara the other night and Guthrie tonight, both times I thought he should have let them have a shot to keep going. Bedard seemed to always want to quit - we don't need quitters, we need winners and that starts with having some heart and getting tough outs.

I'm going to the fridge....time for another beer. I need to kick something and can't find the dog.....very smart dog. I'm sure he has sensed another meaningless Orioles loss and doesn't want to be kicked any more. Wait a minute, I think I hear my 5-year old coming down the steps.....he hasn't learned yet. Thank goodness for 5-year olds. ;)

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