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Tony-OH

TT: Silence of Ownership is Deafening

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I am really curious as to whether the Orioles ran an operating profit in 2018 after a 47-115 record?  If so, maybe that's why the brothers feel no urgency to communicate with their customers (fanbase).  I would think that being in the red would light a fire under their a$$, as it would any other business owner, baseball or otherwise. 

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6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

But T, were the Mets coming off a historically awful season? Again, this is not just this last month we are talking about. We're talking an entire debacle of a season and they said nothing. They let Duquette runs the trades and talk about the future and then fire him? They allow Buck to stay as manager even though his overall record as manager here was being tarnished? The Orioles lost and lost and lost and the said nothing to anyone. Then all they do is drop a press release when Duquette and Buck are fired? 

Sorry, that's a consistent history or them not communicating with their fans and they have shown to be no different than their father in this regard.

Letting Duquette spout off the Orioles future plans and then firing him two months later is another reason why the Angelos brothers should have to reveal themselves to the public.

They could be doing the right things behind the scenes, but the image they are projecting is it’s the same old Orioles.  Optics matter to the average fan. Maybe drawing only a 1 million fans will wake up the brothers.  

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2 minutes ago, stockpile said:

I am really curious as to whether the Orioles ran an operating profit in 2018 after a 47-115 record?  If so, maybe that's why the brothers feel no urgency to communicate with their customers (fanbase).  I would think that being in the red would light a fire under their a$$, as it would any other business owner, baseball or otherwise. 

MASN $$$$

 

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41 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is big part of what people are missing here. There are always going to be fans that think the Orioles can do no wrong and there is some extraordinary puppet master in control and we just don't know about him. That behind the scenes all is well and the fact that ownership has not had press conference in gheese, I don't know when, is par for the course because that's what they've been groomed for under the Angelos regime.

Good owners/CEOs communicate to their fans/customers. They don't make major changes and then put out very generic press release and then go back into hiding while major changes need to happen. Tell me one successful business that fires their leadership team then goes in secrecy for a month?

The Angelos brothers are communicating with the fans exactly how their father did. Peter Angelos just never cared enough about the fans to worry about communicating with them. It appears by their actions over the last year, the Angelos brothers intend to operate in the same way and that's disappointing.

I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt that they could be different, but their silence this entire year during this debacle tells me either they don't have control, or they are apples that did fall far from the tree. 

Let's face it, the Orioles 47-115 record is embarrassing. Strong leaders would have called a press conferences, announced the firing of Duquette and Buck, and then told their fans their were in the middle of exhaustive approach to find the best baseball operations people to bring this team back to winning ways. 

They do that, and we all feel better that things are in motion. Maybe some people don't believe they need to do that, but that's short sighted in my opinion and not the way to run a professional sports franchise.

I feel they need to communicate, but not in the middle of a search for the VP & GM.

If they don't speak at the press conference announcing the hiring, THEN I will be upset.   Being upset that we aren't hearing from them now just seems silly.   They came out within 3 days of the end of the season, issued a statement that major changes at the top of the organization, the 3 most powerful spots, were coming and that it would be someone hired from outside the organization and that person would be given complete control.   Now I say let them make those hires, and THEN we need to hear from them.   

And you know what, if they speak at the press conference but keep it short and simple and say this is our new VP of baseball operations, Mr. X.   He knows more about baseball than we do, so we are giving him complete control, and then they step back and let him give a statement about how he wants to rebuild the organization and his vision, I'll be fine with that too.   All I want is a clear organizational structure with a smart baseball person at the top.   Can they make that happen?   I don't know.   But they have at least stated they are trying and while the hiring process is ongoing, that's enough for me.

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I'm curious why Duquette released that statement and then acquiring all those international funds...and then wasn't brought back after most (not me) thought he'd be back.

I do go back and wonder what was done between July 18th (Dan Duquette's midseason statement) and October 3rd (Orioles announcement that Duquette won't return). That's a 3 month period. A lot could have changed then. What truly happened? I think he handled the Adam Jones situation incredibly poorly. Both from a personnel and a PR perspective. But also I'm curious about its impact from a trade perspective. The Zoellner acquisition was (and still is) one of the most idiotic acquisitions. It essentially further nullified the dismal return from the Gausman trade. And perhaps had an impact on the Mesa negotiations. But my real thing is it a combination of things? 3 months and you have an incredibly poor handling of Adam Jones, the Zoellner debacle (potentially something "owed" to the Phillies for overpromising something) and then anything else...

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4 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Letting Duquette spout off the Orioles future plans and then firing him two months later is another reason why the Angelos brothers should have to reveal themselves to the public.

They could be doing the right things behind the scenes, but the image they are projecting is it’s the same old Orioles.  Optics matter to the average fan. Maybe drawing only a 1 million fans will wake up the brothers.  

The "average" fan isn't even thinking about the Orioles now.   It's a small percentage of us fanatics that are breathlessly awaiting a new VP of baseball operations and GM.

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53 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is big part of what people are missing here. There are always going to be fans that think the Orioles can do no wrong and there is some extraordinary puppet master in control and we just don't know about him. That behind the scenes all is well and the fact that ownership has not had press conference in gheese, I don't know when, is par for the course because that's what they've been groomed for under the Angelos regime.

Good owners/CEOs communicate to their fans/customers. They don't make major changes and then put out very generic press release and then go back into hiding while major changes need to happen. Tell me one successful business that fires their leadership team then goes in secrecy for a month?

The Angelos brothers are communicating with the fans exactly how their father did. Peter Angelos just never cared enough about the fans to worry about communicating with them. It appears by their actions over the last year, the Angelos brothers intend to operate in the same way and that's disappointing.

I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt that they could be different, but their silence this entire year during this debacle tells me either they don't have control, or they are apples that did fall far from the tree. 

Let's face it, the Orioles 47-115 record is embarrassing. Strong leaders would have called a press conferences, announced the firing of Duquette and Buck, and then told their fans their were in the middle of exhaustive approach to find the best baseball operations people to bring this team back to winning ways. 

They do that, and we all feel better that things are in motion. Maybe some people don't believe they need to do that, but that's short sighted in my opinion and not the way to run a professional sports franchise.

You make a lot of good points.   And under normal circumstances more communication with the fan base would show good leadership on the part of the owners.    However this is a different time for the O's.  They are different from any other team this off season because of three events.    

1) An  ownership change appears inevitable.   Even if it is only from father to sons. It has to be approved by the MLB owners.

2) The MASN dispute probably needs to be solved or least seem to be on the way to a solution for the commissioner's office to support that ownership change.

3) There has been a press release from he Orioles that says that the O's will bring in an executive from outside the organization.   Roch has said the this is a President of Baseball Operations.  But we don't know that to be true.  It could be a President or some other title who is in charge on all O's operations.

With this backdrop what things may be taking place?

The Angelos sons may be following MLB rules more strictly then other teams just to be in lock step with the Commissioner's office.  Thus they may not make announcements until after the World Series as the commissioner office would want.

One of the candidate for President of the O's may be from the MLB offices.  (And I don't mean Ng).   The Commissioner's office may not want the name disclosed at this point.  

There may be other valid reasons why the O's keeping quiet that I am not aware of.

I could be completely wrong and this could just to be the mode of operation for the Angelos sons.   But we don't know.

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5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I feel they need to communicate, but not in the middle of a search for the VP & GM.

If they don't speak at the press conference announcing the hiring, THEN I will be upset.   Being upset that we aren't hearing from them now just seems silly.   They came out within 3 days of the end of the season, issued a statement that major changes at the top of the organization, the 3 most powerful spots, were coming and that it would be someone hired from outside the organization and that person would be given complete control.   Now I say let them make those hires, and THEN we need to hear from them.   

And you know what, if they speak at the press conference but keep it short and simple and say this is our new VP of baseball operations, Mr. X.   He knows more about baseball than we do, so we are giving him complete control, and then they step back and let him give a statement about how he wants to rebuild the organization and his vision, I'll be fine with that too.   All I want is a clear organizational structure with a smart baseball person at the top.   Can they make that happen?   I don't know.   But they have at least stated they are trying and while the hiring process is ongoing, that's enough for me.

This. 100%. 

The last game of the season was on 9/30. 3 days later (on a Wednesday), they announced the following:

  • Dan Duquette will not return
  • Buck Showalter will not return
  • They'll hire a new top baseball executive from outside the organization
  • The new executive will have a final say in picking the next manager
  • They potentially will hire an additional executive
  • They assigned an interim baseball operations guy in Brian Graham
  • They announced that Gary Rajsich and Brady Anderson will remain under contract
  • They gave a statement on Buck's and Dan's contributions

That seems plenty to me. It's been 24 days.

Hiring people that are going to change the entire shape of an organization takes an absurd amount of time. It wouldn't shock me if this takes *months*. 

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15 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

They do have a plan to fix the franchise. The fact that everybody in this thread *knows* that they're hiring executives *outside of the organization* should speak volumes. What more do you want them to do? That's my problem here. 

I don't think the majority of posters are clamoring for detailed info but we are not content that they intend to hire outside the org. What if all they do is hire retreads like Syd Thrift or Valentine or Colletti? What if their hires are just as  resistant to analytics or only favor international signings from the bottom of the barrel? That would pay lip service to your statement but doom the franchise. I fear John is in charge and he will operate just like PA, won't hire people who will challenge him, and that John's inner circle will consist of Brady and Stockstill. If so, IMO we are doomed. What I want to hear is that they have identified a pool of candidates, are conducting interviews offsite, intend to have the new team in place by mid-November to allow them to get familiar with the system before Winter meetings. That they intend to build the minor league system, renew the Oriole Way, and impose it consistently across the system. No specific details just a broad framework to ensure we will improve.

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1 minute ago, AnythingO's said:

I don't think the majority of posters are clamoring for detailed info but we are not content that they intend to hire outside the org. What if all they do is hire retreads like Syd Thrift or Valentine or Colletti? What if their hires are just as  resistant to analytics or only favor international signings from the bottom of the barrel? That would pay lip service to your statement but doom the franchise. I fear John is in charge and he will operate just like PA, won't hire people who will challenge him, and that John's inner circle will consist of Brady and Stockstill. If so, IMO we are doomed. What I want to hear is that they have identified a pool of candidates, are conducting interviews offsite, intend to have the new team in place by mid-November to allow them to get familiar with the system before Winter meetings. That they intend to build the minor league system, renew the Oriole Way, and impose it consistently across the system. No specific details just a broad framework to ensure we will improve.

I'll complain about that when it happens.

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2 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

What I want to hear is that they have identified a pool of candidates, are conducting interviews offsite, intend to have the new team in place by mid-November to allow them to get familiar with the system before Winter meetings. That they intend to build the minor league system, renew the Oriole Way, and impose it consistently across the system. No specific details just a broad framework to ensure we will improve.

Would not this type of statement be coming from the new Executive In Charge Of Baseball Operations??

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6 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

I don't think the majority of posters are clamoring for detailed info but we are not content that they intend to hire outside the org. What if all they do is hire retreads like Syd Thrift or Valentine or Colletti? What if their hires are just as  resistant to analytics or only favor international signings from the bottom of the barrel? That would pay lip service to your statement but doom the franchise. I fear John is in charge and he will operate just like PA, won't hire people who will challenge him, and that John's inner circle will consist of Brady and Stockstill. If so, IMO we are doomed. What I want to hear is that they have identified a pool of candidates, are conducting interviews offsite, intend to have the new team in place by mid-November to allow them to get familiar with the system before Winter meetings. That they intend to build the minor league system, renew the Oriole Way, and impose it consistently across the system. No specific details just a broad framework to ensure we will improve.

So what do you want right now to reassure you from them?   A statement that we are going to try to hire someone GOOD from outside, not just someone who sucks?   That would make you feel better?

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2 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

Would not this type of statement be coming from the new Executive In Charge Of Baseball Operations??

Or perhaps whomever decided to "fire or release or not renew" Dan and Buck.

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1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

We're also not talking about just during the Series, stop being dense.

Tony, you have a habit of being very rude to posters here who you disagree with. It isn't a good look and singlehandedly keeps me from being a plus member. Not trying to attack you, just thought I'd share.

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2 minutes ago, SteveA said:

So what do you want right now to reassure you from them?   A statement that we are going to try to hire someone GOOD from outside, not just someone who sucks?   That would make you feel better?

See the last part of my post. No specifics just a plan. Get new people i place before Winter meetings, people that will focus on international market, consistency across the minors, people that value analytics. That the team will be spending more on building the minors and player development.

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