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Matt Wieters

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22 hours ago, foxfield said:

 

 

I think we are turning the page and I think that is probably a good thing.  Now if Manny wants to be here on a discount...that would be different...

But even then, we'd need to change our entire philosophy from a rebuild back to a recharge.  If you sign Manny, then we also need adequate players at second, third, catcher, and a few outfielders.  Signing Manny alone would not move the needle.  

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1 minute ago, Dipper9 said:

But even then, we'd need to change our entire philosophy from a rebuild back to a recharge.  If you sign Manny, then we also need adequate players at second, third, catcher, and a few outfielders.  Signing Manny alone would not move the needle.  

Agreed.   Even if we were able to sign him to a 10 year deal, I doubt he'd want to spend his best production years playing for a lousy/mediocre team with the hope that when he's in his early 30's they'd be a contender.

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I think it is mostly based on those things you listed.    

For what it’s worth, BP provides a detailed defensive breakdown of catchers, including framing, blocking and throwing.    

Joseph: https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/58842/caleb-joseph

Wieters: https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/card/57712/matt-wieters

(You have to click on “catching” on the grey bar above the stat lines to get to the catching stats.)

They have Wieters as the better blocker but Joseph the better framer and better overall last year.   

Joseph also is a better game caller and handler of pitchers. I will say this though, I'm getting a good chuckly outta watching atomic go all fanboy over Wieters while dumping on Caleb as much as possible.

Joseph had a poor year last year, and he was very bad at blocking balls last season (I'd like to see if there is a correlation between his testicular injury and his lack of ability to block balls since because that wasn't an issue when he first came up.). 

Wieters has always been a better offensive player though, that shouldn't really be debated. But I would say it this point neither player would be a good offensive player.

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14 minutes ago, Dipper9 said:

But even then, we'd need to change our entire philosophy from a rebuild back to a recharge.  If you sign Manny, then we also need adequate players at second, third, catcher, and a few outfielders.  Signing Manny alone would not move the needle.  

Of course it would not move the needle at all.  You are correct.  I was being facetious about Manny.  We are not talking to him and he has no interest in coming...discount or premium.

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12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Joseph also is a better game caller and handler of pitchers. I will say this though, I'm getting a good chuckly outta watching atomic go all fanboy over Wieters while dumping on Caleb as much as possible.

Joseph had a poor year last year, and he was very bad at blocking balls last season (I'd like to see if there is a correlation between his testicular injury and his lack of ability to block balls since because that wasn't an issue when he first came up.). 

Wieters has always been a better offensive player though, that shouldn't really be debated. But I would say it this point neither player would be a good offensive player.

I am not stating that Wieters would be a great offensive power. I wanted to bring him on for leadership and mentoring of the younger players.  He seems to be a guy who would want to be a manager in the future.  I still think Wieters would hit a lot better than Joseph.  

One of the problems of last years team was a lack of a veteran leader as Jones seemed to just hang out with Manny and Schoop.  

 

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21 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I'd rather go with Wynns and maybe Susac/Cervenka as a backup than go with retreads. Nothing is worse than losing with players you know won't ever be part of a winning team here. 

Nothing is worse than the 2019 season. 

That's how I read it. Easily 80% of the 2019 squad will not be on the next Orioles winning team.

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5 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Joseph was actually better defensively than Wieters last year (and considerably cheaper). There's no argument for signing Wieters other than nostalgia. I really enjoy 90% of the discussion on this message board, but I really wish some posters would stop trying to live in the past. There's a big pool of free agents out there who aren't former Orioles and they're not that hard to find. Just Google "MLB free agents".  

 

If you don't like my post then move on. Not sure why you keep bringing up the "nostalgia" counter. I clearly said why I would consider Wieters.  I wish "some" posters would stop trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill when thwy disagree with someone.

 

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4 hours ago, atomic said:

Why has Caleb become a cult hero?  He has been terrible.   Wieters had some great seasons with the club.  Seen tons of people wearing Wieters jersey's in the stands not too many wearing Caleb jerseys.  

I have no clue. But you see people clamoring on social media about bringing him back.

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21 hours ago, Frobby said:

I think that’s probably true of the three players mentioned above, as well as Wieters.   

Wieters probably can hit. 

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8 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

If you don't like my post then move on. Not sure why you keep bringing up the "nostalgia" counter. I clearly said why I would consider Wieters.  I wish "some" posters would stop trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill when thwy disagree with someone.

 

I was replying to someone else, not you. If we're only allowed to disagree with your general point of view one time then one of the Mods should probably lock this thread because literally 90% of the replies are from members who are against bringing back Wieters. 

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6 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I was replying to someone else, not you. If we're only allowed to disagree with your general point of view one time then one of the Mods should probably lock this thread because literally 90% of the replies are from members who are against bringing back Wieters. 

But you are stating your opinions as facts.  There are definitely reasons other than Nostalgia to bring Wieters back.   Wieters will most likely perform better than whomever he would replace and he would provide veteran leadership and does a lot of prep with pitchers on opposing hitters before and during the game.  He also can help the younger catchers develop.  

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5 minutes ago, weams said:

Wieters probably can hit. 

Without looking at numbers I feel like the bar has been set a little higher for "hitting" catchers these days. If Wieters could hit .250+ that'd be one thing, because most of them sacrifice batting average for power, but I think he's more of a .230 guy now. And his power isn't elite anymore. At this point in his career I think he's probably on par with someone like James McCann who just signed a 1 year / $2.3M deal. 

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2 minutes ago, atomic said:

But you are stating your opinions as facts.  There are definitely reasons other than Nostalgia to bring Wieters back.   Wieters will most likely perform better than whomever he would replace and he would provide veteran leadership and does a lot of prep with pitchers on opposing hitters before and during the game.  He also can help the younger catchers develop.  

Ok I'll play this game. Which of the following catchers is he noticeably better than? If they're going to spend money on a catcher (which I don't think they should do) I'd much rather see them sign someone who at least has some upside. Again, I really think signing any of these guys (Wieters included) is a compete waste of money. They should go with who they have on their roster and if it doesn't work out address it during the season. 

Catchers
Yasmani Grandal (30 years old, 3.6 WAR)
Wilson Ramos (31, 2.4)
Kurt Suzuki (35, 2.0) -- Signed 2-year deal with WSH (11/20).
Robinson Chirinos (35, 1.6) -- Agreed to 1-year deal with HOU (12/4).
Martin Maldonado (32, 0.9)
Nick Hundley (35, 0.9)
Matt Wieters (33, 0.9)
A.J. Ellis (38, 0.8)
Devin Mesoraco (31, 0.7) -
Jonathan Lucroy (33, 0.6)
Chris Herrmann (31, 0.6) -- non-tendered
Brian McCann (35, 0.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with ATL (11/26).
Rene Rivera (35, 0.3)
Juan Graterol, C (29, 0.1) -- non-tendered
Caleb Joseph (32, 0.0) -- non-tendered
James McCann (28, -0.1) -- non-tendered
Chris Stewart (37, -0.1)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (34, -0.2)
Jose Lobaton (34, -0.3)
Drew Butera (35, -0.3)
Jeff Mathis (36, -0.5) -- Signed 2-year deal with TEX (11/19).
Bobby Wilson (36, -0.5)
Stephen Vogt (34, N/A) -- Didn't appear in the Majors in 2018.

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6 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Without looking at numbers I feel like the bar has been set a little higher for "hitting" catchers these days. If Wieters could hit .250+ that'd be one thing, because most of them sacrifice batting average for power, but I think he's more of a .230 guy now. And his power isn't elite anymore. At this point in his career I think he's probably on par with someone like James McCann who just signed a 1 year / $2.3M deal. 

I looked at this a few hours ago.   The last five years, catcher OPS has ranged between .682 and .726.  Wieters has been at .702 in that period, so about average for a catcher.    Of course, the averages include both the starters and the backups.    I suspect Wieters would be below average for a starting catcher.   

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1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Ok I'll play this game. Which of the following catchers is he noticeably better than? If they're going to spend money on a catcher (which I don't think they should do) I'd much rather see them sign someone who at least has some upside. Again, I really think signing any of these guys (Wieters included) is a compete waste of money. They should go with who they have on their roster and if it doesn't work out address it during the season. 

Catchers
Yasmani Grandal (30 years old, 3.6 WAR)
Wilson Ramos (31, 2.4)
Kurt Suzuki (35, 2.0) -- Signed 2-year deal with WSH (11/20).
Robinson Chirinos (35, 1.6) -- Agreed to 1-year deal with HOU (12/4).
Martin Maldonado (32, 0.9)
Nick Hundley (35, 0.9)
Matt Wieters (33, 0.9)
A.J. Ellis (38, 0.8)
Devin Mesoraco (31, 0.7) -
Jonathan Lucroy (33, 0.6)
Chris Herrmann (31, 0.6) -- non-tendered
Brian McCann (35, 0.5) -- Signed 1-year deal with ATL (11/26).
Rene Rivera (35, 0.3)
Juan Graterol, C (29, 0.1) -- non-tendered
Caleb Joseph (32, 0.0) -- non-tendered
James McCann (28, -0.1) -- non-tendered
Chris Stewart (37, -0.1)
Jarrod Saltalamacchia (34, -0.2)
Jose Lobaton (34, -0.3)
Drew Butera (35, -0.3)
Jeff Mathis (36, -0.5) -- Signed 2-year deal with TEX (11/19).
Bobby Wilson (36, -0.5)
Stephen Vogt (34, N/A) -- Didn't appear in the Majors in 2018.

Didn't Hermann (former Orioles Draft Pick) get claimed and released by the Astros? I'd go for him. 

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