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I don't know.  I mean, I'd like to be getting a few million a year every year until I'm 60, well after my playing days are over.

Every July 1st I think about Bobby Bonilla and get a little happy for that guy.  I'm sure he's not complaining.  And it's the Mets, so f' em.  Then again, we're going to be paying Chris Davis for forever, and that sucks.

But I understand why Harper turned the Nats down if getting paid until he's 60 isn't his thing.

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1 hour ago, LookinUp said:

Without pure socialism (e.g., 100% revenue sharing), you won't get an even playing field for teams and thus you won't get owners to agree to real performance-based contracts. Without real extensive revenue sharing, there has to be another way where relatively poorer teams can extract value out of lower paid players. Performance-based contracts can't work. Thus continues the viscous cycle.

And you'll never get the richer teams to agree to full revenue sharing because the ownership groups bought into the teams on the basis of having a disproportionate share of the baseball market.  The Yanks are valued at whatever they are largely on them having domain over the revenues of 3/4ths of the biggest media market in the country.  Putting all revenues in a common pot and giving each team 1/30th would cost the Yanks $300M a year, give or take.

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I will say...I like having some general MLB talk here.  I don't think the Harper/Manny stuff got in the way of anything Orioles related.  I don't visit the MLB section as much as I probably should, but I can't speak for other posters.  But over the course of the offseason I found having everyone involved in these conversations pretty cool.  Some good debates and exchanges of ideas.  

I understand the need for separation but occasionally I don't think it's bad to have some general MLB stuff in the Orioles section when its a hot topic.

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On 2/27/2019 at 6:50 PM, Moose Milligan said:

Ooooooo, well why don't you tell me why I'm wrong and stupid for that comment?  Got any evidence that Philly fans are saints? 

I never said they were saints. Please show me where I said that. I stated that they are no worse than fans of any other sports town. You can cherry pick bad acts of sports fans from anywhere. Try reading the link I posted above and note where the first example came from.

You made a blanket statement about an entire city without citing any facts and then proclaimed, "debate over'" That's stupid.

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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Both statements could be accurate.  Perhaps the Phillies floated the idea?

 

Phillies likely floated it in case they wanted to give Harper a potential out and escape paying him.  I still can't get over Harper signed up for a 13 year commitment. 

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1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Both statements could be accurate.  Perhaps the Phillies floated the idea?

 

Yeah I’d discuss it if floated, even if I didn’t particularly want one. I could even pretend to want one, so that’s something I can give up in the negotiations. And if given for nothing you take it. What if you’re a 10 WAR MVP again in the early 2020s and the new CBA is suddenly more player friendly?

Edited by makoman
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25 minutes ago, Rich Mac said:

I never said they were saints. Please show me where I said that. I stated that they are no worse than fans of any other sports town. You can cherry pick bad acts of sports fans from anywhere. Try reading the link I posted above and note where the first example came from.

You made a blanket statement about an entire city without citing any facts and then proclaimed, "debate over'" That's stupid.

I never said you said that.  

Ok, facts:   Like how they cheered when Michael Irvin went down with a career ending neck injury? 

How about when they beat up Chief Zee?  Put him in a wheelchair.

https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/theater/article/13025598/philadelphia-story

Quote

That's apparently the sign Eagles fans saw on Chief Zee. Early in the game, two locals accosted Williams in the upper deck. They ripped his customized jumpsuit during an unsuccessful attempt to tear it clean off him. The assailants also grabbed the feathers off his head and threw them to the grandstands below. Veterans Stadium security guards came to Chief Zee's rescue, throwing his attackers out.

Williams, who was ruffled but unhurt, went downstairs and asked for help from Philly fans in retrieving his headdress, but, with John Riggins leading the Skins to a 23-13 win over the home team, they weren't in any mood to assist. The Chief left the stadium without the feathers. On his walk to the parking lot, a van cut in front of Williams and stopped. The back doors opened, and a thuggish quartet—including the two folks who'd been ejected for going after Williams inside the stadium—jumped out. They proceeded to deliver perhaps the worst mascot beating in NFL history on Chief Zee.

"They treated me like chopped meat," he says. "They ripped off my costume, smashed my eye socket so my eyeball was just hanging out, snapped my leg like it was a twig, and yelled, 'You won't be jumping up and down in this stadium anymore!' They left me lying in my underclothes."

 

Quote

Eagles officials invited Chief Zee to come back in costume as their guest for the 1984 game at the Vet.

He accepted the invitation.

Bad move.

"They gave me the VIP treatment: drove me to the game and put me in the box seats," Williams says. "But this senior-citizen lady comes up to me and says, 'You've got a lot of nerve coming up here! We mugged the guy who dressed like that last year!' And then she threw her drink in my face. I can still smell that drink."

Though it was only halftime, Williams got up and left the game after drying himself off. He hasn't been back to Philadelphia since. But he hasn't missed a Skins home game "unless there's a death in the family."

Matthew Clemens, puking on an 11 year old girl and an off duty cop:

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2010/04/22/thanks-a-lot-pukemon/

Quote

In case you have been stuck at the Oslo Airport for the last 10 days because of the other famous eruption, Clemens is the 21-year-old from Cherry Hill who was arrested for intentionally vomiting on an 11-year-old-girl and an off-duty cop at Citizen’s Bank Park. 
 

Quote

And we were doing so well. Most of the reputation seemed to fade with the implosion of the Vet. But when Matthew Clemens reportedly stuck his fingers down his throat, it all came back up.

I cannot fathom the outrage and disgust that Easton police captain Michael Vangelo felt when he and his daughter were retched on. I know how precious those father-daughter moments are, and to have it ruined in such a vile way elicits an outpouring of empathy for both.

Throwing a beer bottle at Ryan Howard.  Players have had stuff thrown at them before, but it's not a coincidence that it's in Philly.  

https://6abc.com/sports/police-seek-man-who-threw-beer-bottle-at-ryan-howard-/1372395/

Quote
SOUTH PHILADELPHIA (WPVI) --

As Philadelphia police search for the man who threw a beer bottle at Phillies player Ryan Howard during Saturday's game, the first baseman is speaking out about the incident.

"It's disappointing. It's something that everyone in here works hard for. To do what I've done in the city, I don't care how bad somebody thinks I'm playing, it's uncalled for. You shouldn't do it. You shouldn't do it period. It does become personal. It does become very personal," Howard told reporters in the team's clubhouse Monday afternoon.

Flyers owner dies, fans are handed out plastic bracelets before the game in remembrance.  What do Philly fans do?  Chuck em on the ice because they were losing:

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/4/19/11458412/nhl-video-philadelphia-flyers-fans-throw-wristbands

Quote

In a similar vein as when Whitey Ford tried to calm down pretzel-wielding fans on The Simpsons, the aforementioned light-up wristbands ended up on the ice. It got so bad, the Flyers announcer and players from both teams pleaded fans to stop.

 

Chris Baker getting hit with a cheesesteak:

https://uproxx.com/sports/was-washingtons-chris-baker-hit-with-a-cheesesteak-after-he-was-ejected-during-sundays-nfl-game/

 

Quote

As Baker headed to the tunnel, he was greeted with taunts, boos and flying objects from angry Philly fans. Now, here’s where it gets interesting. According to the Washington Post’s Dan Steinberg, one of the objects that hit Baker was a cheesesteak. Or was it?

He Zapruder Film’d that bad boy and what do you know, there’s a flying cheesesteak on the right side of the screen.

Phillies fan ejected by an umpire:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/umpire-bob-davidson-ejects-phillies-fan-heckling-mlb-giants

Quote

The fan was seated some 14 rows back on the third-base side, but he managed to bother Davidson to the point of an ejection. According to the News Journal, the fan repeatedly yelled “you suck” at Davidson.

 

 

Flyers fan jumps in the penalty box to fight Tie Domi.  

 

Kid at a Philly game, drinking beer

 

Using a laser pointer on Albert Pujols

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/sports/Phils-Fan-Uses-Laser-Pointer.html

Quote

A laser pointer was the weapon of choice for one Phils fan at Saturday's game.

A fan at the Cards/Phillies game used a strategically placed laser pointer to try and distract the St. Louis hitters.

In the top of the seventh inning the fan first used it on Julio Lugo, who eventually struck out.

Then the fan tried to distract Albert Pujols before umpire Jim Wolf called time and tried to find the fan. Security went to the section but the culprit was never caught, according to ESPN.

Once the pointing stopped Pujols responded by knocking a single off Chan Ho Park.

It was just the latest classless move made by a Philly fan that will surely be met by a firestorm of criticism. This moment will be lumped in there with booing Santa Claus, throwing snowballs on the field and the infamous Eagles court.

Do Philly fans throw batteries?  Sure, enough that Duracell took notice:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/duracell-teases-philly-about-its-history-with-throwing-batteries-in-perfect-super-bowl-tweet

Oh man, the jail under the Vet.  What was that assumption you made? "It probably came about because a Judge wanted free access into the games and had shop set up in the basement to get in."

https://billypenn.com/2015/09/11/peeing-in-sinks-fights-in-the-stands-a-flare-gun-the-awful-antics-that-birthed-eagles-court-at-the-vet-and-why-it-went-away/

Oh, ok.

The time someone brought a flare gun to the Vet, 60 fights in the stands, someone getting an ankle shattered:

Quote

Still, this Monday night in November blew people’s minds. And it wasn’t the approximate 60 fights that erupted in the stands or the mob who shattered the ankle of a season-ticket holder who committed the unforgivable sin of bringing a friend to the game who wore a Giants jacket. Nope, not those. This was a combination of them plus a flare. Somebody fired a flare across the stadium. To repeat: That orange rescue signal appropriated for “Jurassic Park”-style emergencies had been used at a professional football game.

 

Quote

The decline of the Vet and rise of Eagles Court 

We can actually thank our suburb to the north, New York City, for the idea that would lead to Eagles Court. In the 80s, New York introduced night court. A courthouse in a busy area of the city would be open at night to rapidly charge and process individuals arrested for minor offenses.

Philadelphia adopted a similar practice in 1996, with then-councilman Kenney organizing the first of its kind in South Philly. Police would canvass an area and target so-called “nuisance crimes,” and people arrested for those minor infractions like fighting and public intoxication would face immediate fines, rather than a drawn out legal process from a night court led by McCaffery.   

------

The Eagles had tried for several years to clamp down on that type of behavior. In 1986, they stopped selling beer after halftime and requested the NFL to not schedule 4 p.m. games at the Vet against rivals in hopes alcohol consumption would decrease. But cosmetic changes couldn’t reverse the decline of a 30-year-old building. The stadium had long lived past its useful days, and its decaying environment and pre-9/11 lax security practically invited misbehavior.

The restrooms may have been the worst part. The Vet didn’t have nearly enough, especially at the upper levels. Anybody walking into the men’s restroom during a game needed to brace themselves for the sight of men urinating in the sinks. Feeley recalls that it could get even worse. There were spaces on the wall for paper towel dispensers and…“They would rip out the paper towel containers and piss in there,” Feeley says. “It was a mess. Eagles Court was created to address some of that and rein in the crowd.”  

The resounding image for Rendell was more of a sound. He listened to sports radio after the infamous 49ers game and considered comments about how families couldn’t even take children to games a breaking point. City leaders like Rendell and Kenney started talking with Eagles’ brass and soon enough McCaffery received a phone call from Kenney: “Jim said to me, ‘Seamus, do you mind meeting Jeff Lurie and Joe Banner? They want to talk to you about putting an actual courtroom in the stadium.’”

At first, McCaffery didn’t believe them. A courtroom in a football stadium? But in a meeting at the Vet, Lurie and Banner were adamant in their request and told McCaffery they would build him a courtroom.

It was official: The justice program first organized by Kenney would be moved into the Vet.

People who misbehaved up to that point had still been getting arrested, even flare-gun guy Robert Sellers. He faced eight criminal counts, including arson, and later accepted probation. But Sellers was an exception, not only for his ad hoc fireworks show but also for the punishment. Most people arrested at games had court dates scheduled weeks or months later. They’d often not show up, and their offenses – urinating in those bathroom sinks, for instance – weren’t big enough to make the courts care.

Fans taken to Eagles Court would see a judge immediately. They were usually caught in the act and essentially forced to make a guilty plea that led to a fine somewhere between $150-$300 and/or community service. More serious crimes would lead to charges and court dates. And people who wished to plead not guilty or request a lawyer would also be assigned a court date.  

Leaders thought the specter of swift, guaranteed punishment would cause fans to make better choices — or at least as good of choices that could be made in a shabby stadium.

“I think it helped restore relative order,” says Mike DiBerardinis, then and still Philadelphia’s recreation commissioner. “The Vet had a relative order.”

But..oh yeah, a judge wanted free access to games and had to set up shop in the basement to get in.  🙄 

 

Vikings fans who traveled to the game told their horrible experience to KARE 11 in Minneapolis. One guy in the video said that one of his friends had his hat taken off by an Eagle's fan who urinated on it. Another one of his friends was punched in the face. 

 

Eagles fans make fun of a 99 year old Vikings fan named Millie who was recently awarded Superbowl tickets from the commissioner.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/99-year-old-vikings-fan-gets-tickets-to-the-super-bowl/

 

I get it, you're from Philly or have some allegiance to the area.  But that reputation is earned, it wasn't bestowed upon them for no apparent reason.  

Enough examples?  Should I go on?

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2 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Phillies likely floated it in case they wanted to give Harper a potential out and escape paying him.  I still can't get over Harper signed up for a 13 year commitment. 

More likely they offered it as a way to lower the total dollar amount or defer some of the money.

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Or he just hated the entire charade of free agency and never wants to do it again. No temptations. I'm done with this.  I'm sure it was a very very long, uncomfortable free agency period. For both he and Manny.

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3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I never said you said that.  

Ok, facts:   Like how they cheered when Michael Irvin went down with a career ending neck injury? 

How about when they beat up Chief Zee?  Put him in a wheelchair.

https://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/arts/theater/article/13025598/philadelphia-story

 

Matthew Clemens, puking on an 11 year old girl and an off duty cop:

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2010/04/22/thanks-a-lot-pukemon/

Throwing a beer bottle at Ryan Howard.  Players have had stuff thrown at them before, but it's not a coincidence that it's in Philly.  

https://6abc.com/sports/police-seek-man-who-threw-beer-bottle-at-ryan-howard-/1372395/

Flyers owner dies, fans are handed out plastic bracelets before the game in remembrance.  What do Philly fans do?  Chuck em on the ice because they were losing:

https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/4/19/11458412/nhl-video-philadelphia-flyers-fans-throw-wristbands

 

Chris Baker getting hit with a cheesesteak:

https://uproxx.com/sports/was-washingtons-chris-baker-hit-with-a-cheesesteak-after-he-was-ejected-during-sundays-nfl-game/

 

Phillies fan ejected by an umpire:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/08/umpire-bob-davidson-ejects-phillies-fan-heckling-mlb-giants

 

Flyers fan jumps in the penalty box to fight Tie Domi.  

 

Kid at a Philly game, drinking beer

 

Using a laser pointer on Albert Pujols

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/sports/Phils-Fan-Uses-Laser-Pointer.html

Do Philly fans throw batteries?  Sure, enough that Duracell took notice:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/duracell-teases-philly-about-its-history-with-throwing-batteries-in-perfect-super-bowl-tweet

Oh man, the jail under the Vet.  What was that assumption you made? "It probably came about because a Judge wanted free access into the games and had shop set up in the basement to get in."

https://billypenn.com/2015/09/11/peeing-in-sinks-fights-in-the-stands-a-flare-gun-the-awful-antics-that-birthed-eagles-court-at-the-vet-and-why-it-went-away/

Oh, ok.

The time someone brought a flare gun to the Vet, 60 fights in the stands, someone getting an ankle shattered:

 

But..oh yeah, a judge wanted free access to games and had to set up shop in the basement to get in.  🙄 

 

Vikings fans who traveled to the game told their horrible experience to KARE 11 in Minneapolis. One guy in the video said that one of his friends had his hat taken off by an Eagle's fan who urinated on it. Another one of his friends was punched in the face. 

 

Eagles fans make fun of a 99 year old Vikings fan named Millie who was recently awarded Superbowl tickets from the commissioner.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/99-year-old-vikings-fan-gets-tickets-to-the-super-bowl/

 

I get it, you're from Philly or have some allegiance to the area.  But that reputation is earned, it wasn't bestowed upon them for no apparent reason.  

Enough examples?  Should I go on?

Seriously? Last year alone there were 4,335,000 fans that attended the 4 major professional sports teams in Philly. You picked about 20 incidents. You're referencing events that go back at least 20 years, so that's about 1 per every 2 million attending sports fans. That's lower than the murder rate in Baltimore.

 

Just imagine how much fun you would have with these if they happened in Philly:

Orioles game played with no fans allowed in Camden Yards due to civil unrest.

Fired MTA driver Donald Kroner who had made threats to former Colt Don Pellington crashes his plane into Memorial Stadium in the 4th quarter of a blowout loss.

Joseph Bauer beaten so badly at Ravens game that he was on life support and would eventually have to learn to walk again.

 

If you care, you can do the YouTube searches for Orioles fan fights or Ravens fan fights. There are plenty of them.

I don't have an agenda. I do live in Philly and I grew up in Maryland. I love Philly and Baltimore and it just pisses me off when someone says (to paraphrase you here) Philly fans get what they deserve, end of debate. That's just ignorant. I've been to many, many sporting events in both cities and I can tell you that there is virtually no difference in the crowds at either location. I've said it before and I will stick to it ... you can cherry pick incidents and make Philly look awful, but you could do the same thing for virtually any city.

I'll show myself the door now. We're just spinning our wheels and hijacking a thread.

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On 2/25/2019 at 6:58 PM, O's are Legends said:
 

Once it gets to the Phillies, it's all over.

 

o

 

This was a very good call, 5 days ahead of the fact.

 

By the way, I still owe you a dollar from when Boise State made the 2013 NCAA tournament with an at-large bid.

 

 

 

o

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